Ex-supreme allied commander of NATO forces discusses the state of war in Ukraine

Ex-supreme¹ allied² commander of NATO forces discusses the state of war in Ukraine

　　Transcript³

　　NPR's Steve Inskeep talks to retired⁴ Gen. Philip Breedlove, former NATO Supreme Allied Commander, about how the U.S. and other NATO members will address the war in Ukraine when meeting this week.

　　STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:

　　For a few moments yesterday, a startling figure appeared in the Russian news media. A pro-Kremlin publication briefly⁵ gave official figures for Russian dead and wounded in Ukraine. A Wall Street Journal reporter got a screenshot before the numbers vanished. The Russian publication said 9,861 Russians have been killed and more than 16,000 wounded. And the purported⁶ source was Russia's own Ministry⁷ of Defense⁸. Now, these numbers were published and then unpublished as President Biden prepares to travel to Europe this week, meeting with U.S. allies in support of Ukraine.

　　So let's discuss the state of the war with retired U.S. Air Force General Philip Breedlove, who knows this battlespace because he was supreme allied commander of NATO forces at one time. General Breedlove, good morning.

　　PHILIP BREEDLOVE: Good morning. How are you, Steve?

　　INSKEEP: I'm okay. Thanks for joining us. So those numbers that appeared and then vanished suggest more than 10% of Russia's invading force is out of action. And I feel comfortable repeating them because a senior Pentagon official also says the U.S. believes Russia has lost around or even more than 10%. What does it mean for a military force when they lose that many troops?

　　BREEDLOVE: Well, first, we'd like to say that those numbers are not very far off of what the Ukrainians have been reporting steadily⁹. So I also think that they're fairly credible¹⁰ numbers. Ten percent is impactful. It's extremely impactful if it includes leaders. And you know that we are pretty sure five if not six of the generals that are leading this force have been killed. And so if that's indicative of the kind of people they're losing, that's going to be a real problem. Now, I have heard some talk that 10% starts to make the unit not combat-effective. That really I don't think is appropriate at that percentage. But with a force that is already suffering morale¹¹ problems and losing 10% of the force, this might be a big issue.

　　INSKEEP: The Russians have been trying different things to make it appear that they're moving forward or adding additional force. There was much publicity¹² about the firing of a hypersonic missile, which I understand to be just a missile that just travels faster to its target. Does that make any difference?

　　BREEDLOVE: Well, I think that the way they use this particular missile in this conflict - it really is just that they're trying to make a statement. They've had no real tactical effect on the battlefield that any other missile - you know, we have sort of stopped tracking it, but we're well over 900 missiles fired so far in this conflict. And one more really is not a tactical effect on the battlefield. I think they're just trying to get the world's attention that we're willing to escalate¹³ this business here.

　　INSKEEP: Well, let's talk about escalation¹⁴. The U.S. and NATO, of course, have mostly been very clear on what they will and won't do. They will arm Ukraine. They won't send troops, won't send planes, at least not in the way that was proposed the other day. What more can the U.S. and NATO do as President Biden travels to Europe this week?

　　BREEDLOVE: Well, there's still things that NATO could do as far as arming the Ukrainians. There's been much talked about moving around some of these MiG aircraft. The Ukrainians have asked for this Soviet-era style surface-to-air missiles that we have yet to move to them. And at least three of our nations have those kind of missiles that can be immediately assimilated into the Ukrainian order of battle, as opposed to, say, if we introduce a new weapon, it may take a lot longer. So there's still a lot of arming to do, and...

　　INSKEEP: Is it possible, General, that there's some arming going on that we're not hearing about? I'm surprised we've heard as much as we have.

　　BREEDLOVE: I am, too, quite frankly¹⁵. We've played some things out in the public that could have been handled much better in private. But in this war, I think both sides - the leadership of both sides are fiercely trying to signal their own populace that, you know, we keep standing¹⁶ up. And the very first thing that our senior leaders say out of their mouth are the things that they're not going to do. It's quite interesting how much public signaling we're doing.

　　INSKEEP: Well, now Poland has said it plans to submit a proposal to NATO for some kind of peacekeeping mission in Ukraine. The U.S. ambassador to the United Nations has already said the U.S. isn't going to participate in that. No U.S. troops in Ukraine. Is there some way for some NATO forces to introduce peacekeeping troops into Ukraine without massively escalating¹⁷ the war?

　　BREEDLOVE: Well, once again, you've heard these very public notes - no this, no that. And I think that we should be having conversations and not so publicly. A military force wants to plan and look at options, and to stand up and take those options off the table preemptively is not the way we operate. And so I think that we should allow military planners to take a look at this and then advise the civilians¹⁸ who make the decisions.

　　INSKEEP: Well, let's talk about other possible escalations here. How concerned should the United States be about the possibility of Russia using biological or chemical weapons, given that the Russians have started lobbing accusations¹⁹ about Ukrainian biological labs and so forth²⁰, which sounds like a preliminary to that?

　　BREEDLOVE: They've actually been doing that for some time now, haven't they, Steve? But what worries me more than what you just mentioned is the fact that Mr. Putin's war is not going well. He's stalled in many places. And you've seen him going to these Cro-Magnon tactics of just shelling cities, mass murder, get refugees on the road, cause just disruption in the rear area with this - these - this indiscriminate bombing and shelling. And it's still not working well for him. So the more frustrated²¹ Mr. Putin gets with the progress he's seeing, the more dangerous he gets on these chem and bio weapons. He's been talking about them for some time. That really is not a new piece. The new piece is what would force him to use them.

　　INSKEEP: Can the United States deter²² a Russian chemical attack?

　　BREEDLOVE: Well, let's just put it this way, Steve. We haven't deterred²³ him at all yet in this war. You know, before this war started, we said we were in a very passive deterrent²⁴ mode. We said, if he does this, then we'll do that. If he does this, then we'll do that. And so that's a very passive approach. And Mr. Putin, we were told, was told everything by our senior leadership that they were going to do. We heard over and over again, we've explained to him what will happen, and he understands it. He measured all of that. He was not deterred, and he attacked. And right now, our deterrence²⁵ is really not working on anything we're trying to do with him. So I don't believe really we have an effective deterrent right now over chem warfare²⁶.

　　INSKEEP: General, thanks so much for your time - really appreciate it.

　　BREEDLOVE: Thank you.

　　INSKEEP: Retired General Philip Breedlove.

1 supreme   

adj.极度的，最重要的；至高的，最高的

参考例句：

• It was the supreme moment in his life.那是他一生中最重要的时刻。
• He handed up the indictment to the supreme court.他把起诉书送交最高法院。

2 allied   

adj.协约国的；同盟国的

参考例句：

• Britain was allied with the United States many times in history.历史上英国曾多次与美国结盟。
• Allied forces sustained heavy losses in the first few weeks of the campaign.同盟国在最初几周内遭受了巨大的损失。

3 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

4 retired   

adj.隐退的，退休的，退役的

参考例句：

• The old man retired to the country for rest.这位老人下乡休息去了。
• Many retired people take up gardening as a hobby.许多退休的人都以从事园艺为嗜好。

5 briefly   

adv.简单地，简短地

参考例句：

• I want to touch briefly on another aspect of the problem.我想简单地谈一下这个问题的另一方面。
• He was kidnapped and briefly detained by a terrorist group.他被一个恐怖组织绑架并短暂拘禁。

6 purported   

adj.传说的，谣传的v.声称是…，（装得）像是…的样子( purport的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• the scene of the purported crime 传闻中的罪案发生地点
• The film purported to represent the lives of ordinary people. 这部影片声称旨在表现普通人的生活。 来自《简明英汉词典》

7 ministry   

n.(政府的)部；牧师

参考例句：

• They sent a deputation to the ministry to complain.他们派了一个代表团到部里投诉。
• We probed the Air Ministry statements.我们调查了空军部的记录。

8 defense   

n.防御，保卫；[pl.]防务工事；辩护，答辩

参考例句：

• The accused has the right to defense.被告人有权获得辩护。
• The war has impacted the area with military and defense workers.战争使那个地区挤满了军队和防御工程人员。

9 steadily   

adv.稳定地；不变地；持续地

参考例句：

• The scope of man's use of natural resources will steadily grow.人类利用自然资源的广度将日益扩大。
• Our educational reform was steadily led onto the correct path.我们的教学改革慢慢上轨道了。

10 credible   

adj.可信任的，可靠的

参考例句：

• The news report is hardly credible.这则新闻报道令人难以置信。
• Is there a credible alternative to the nuclear deterrent?是否有可以取代核威慑力量的可靠办法？

11 morale   

n.道德准则，士气，斗志

参考例句：

• The morale of the enemy troops is sinking lower every day.敌军的士气日益低落。
• He tried to bolster up their morale.他尽力鼓舞他们的士气。

12 publicity   

n.众所周知，闻名；宣传，广告

参考例句：

• The singer star's marriage got a lot of publicity.这位歌星的婚事引起了公众的关注。
• He dismissed the event as just a publicity gimmick.他不理会这件事，只当它是一种宣传手法。

13 escalate   

v.(使)逐步增长(或发展)，(使)逐步升级

参考例句：

• It would tempt Israel's neighbors to escalate their demands.它将诱使以色列的邻国不断把他们的要求升级。
• Defeat could cause one side or other to escalate the conflict.失败可能会导致其中一方将冲突升级。

14 escalation   

n.扩大，增加

参考例句：

• The threat of nuclear escalation remains. 核升级的威胁仍旧存在。 来自辞典例句
• Escalation is thus an aspect of deterrence and of crisis management. 因此逐步升级是威慑和危机处理的一个方面。 来自辞典例句

15 frankly   

adv.坦白地，直率地；坦率地说

参考例句：

• To speak frankly, I don't like the idea at all.老实说，我一点也不赞成这个主意。
• Frankly speaking, I'm not opposed to reform.坦率地说，我不反对改革。

16 standing   

n.持续，地位；adj.永久的，不动的，直立的，不流动的

参考例句：

• After the earthquake only a few houses were left standing.地震过后只有几幢房屋还立着。
• They're standing out against any change in the law.他们坚决反对对法律做任何修改。

17 escalating   

v.（使）逐步升级( escalate的现在分词 )；（使）逐步扩大；（使）更高；（使）更大

参考例句：

• The cost of living is escalating. 生活费用在迅速上涨。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• The cost of living is escalating in the country. 这个国家的生活费用在上涨。 来自辞典例句

18 civilians   

平民，百姓( civilian的名词复数 )； 老百姓

参考例句：

• the bloody massacre of innocent civilians 对无辜平民的血腥屠杀
• At least 300 civilians are unaccounted for after the bombing raids. 遭轰炸袭击之后，至少有300名平民下落不明。

19 accusations   

n.指责( accusation的名词复数 )；指控；控告；（被告发、控告的）罪名

参考例句：

• There were accusations of plagiarism. 曾有过关于剽窃的指控。
• He remained unruffled by their accusations. 对于他们的指控他处之泰然。

20 forth   

adv.向前；向外，往外

参考例句：

• The wind moved the trees gently back and forth.风吹得树轻轻地来回摇晃。
• He gave forth a series of works in rapid succession.他很快连续发表了一系列的作品。

21 frustrated   

adj.挫败的，失意的，泄气的v.使不成功( frustrate的过去式和过去分词 )；挫败；使受挫折；令人沮丧

参考例句：

• It's very easy to get frustrated in this job. 这个工作很容易令人懊恼。
• The bad weather frustrated all our hopes of going out. 恶劣的天气破坏了我们出行的愿望。 来自《简明英汉词典》

22 deter   

vt.阻止，使不敢，吓住

参考例句：

• Failure did not deter us from trying it again.失败并没有能阻挡我们再次进行试验。
• Dogs can deter unwelcome intruders.狗能够阻拦不受欢迎的闯入者。

23 deterred   

v.阻止，制止( deter的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• I told him I wasn't interested, but he wasn't deterred. 我已告诉他我不感兴趣，可他却不罢休。
• Jeremy was not deterred by this criticism. 杰里米没有因这一批评而却步。 来自辞典例句

24 deterrent   

n.阻碍物，制止物；adj.威慑的，遏制的

参考例句：

• Large fines act as a deterrent to motorists.高额罚款是对开车的人的制约。
• I put a net over my strawberries as a deterrent to the birds.我在草莓上罩了网，免得鸟歇上去。

25 deterrence   

威慑，制止； 制止物，制止因素； 挽留的事物； 核威慑

参考例句：

• An extreme school of "disarmers" pronounced stable deterrence was a dangerous deception. “裁军论者”中的极端派声称，稳定的威摄是一种危险的骗局。
• Escalation is thus an aspect of deterrence and of crisis management. 因此逐步升级是威慑和危机处理的一个方面。

26 warfare   

n.战争(状态)；斗争；冲突

参考例句：

• He addressed the audience on the subject of atomic warfare.他向听众演讲有关原子战争的问题。
• Their struggle consists mainly in peasant guerrilla warfare.他们的斗争主要是农民游击战。