美国国家公共电台 NPR--Ukraine will prevail over Russia and we will help them, NATO official says

Ukraine will prevail over Russia and we will help them, NATO official says

Transcript¹

Russia's invasion of Ukraine is coming up on three months with no end in sight. NPR's Steve Inskeep speaks with NATO Deputy Secretary General Mircea Geoana about the alliance's objectives in Ukraine.

STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:

A question once posed about the war in Iraq now looms² over the war in Ukraine. How does this end? To a large extent, that is Russia's problem. Russia chose the war and has suffered heavy losses. But of course, it matters to Ukraine and to members of the NATO alliance. So how can NATO countries affect the outcome now? NATO Deputy Secretary General Mircea Geoana is on the line. Good morning.

MIRCEA GEOANA: Good morning.

INSKEEP: Is your side winning?

GEOANA: Winning will - it will prevail. And what the NATO allies and partners of Ukraine in Europe and around the world - assisting Ukraine to prevail in this conflict that is - as you mentioned, is not their invention. It's a Russian imperial fantasy based on the idea that the Ukrainian nation does not exist, based on idea that the West will be not as united as we are today and basically feeding false narratives³ in our public opinions that this is NATO's fault. So Ukraine will prevail, and we'll help them do that.

INSKEEP: But I'm just thinking through the situation now. Clearly, Russia has failed in many of its goals, has suffered catastrophic losses on the battlefield, is presumably also suffering from sanctions. And yet, from a certain Russian perspective, they control more territory than they did 2 1/2 months ago. They control some large portions of Ukraine and don't seem to be going anywhere. Do you see the way or the moment they would be pushed back or forced to stop?

GEOANA: We have to remember that the original intention and the current intention, at least in President Putin's mind, was either the occupation of the whole of Ukraine or at least, at minimum, getting rid of President Zelenskyy and his government. So from this original intentions of Putin and the reality today, that's a huge strategic failure for Russia. They lost the battle for Kyiv. Now, after seeing the Donbas and in southern Ukraine, their fierce fight - and Ukrainian forces are also, in some places, mounting counteroffensive. I cannot say how long this thing will drag. It depends on many things.

But as Russia is depleting⁴ its forces, depleting its ammunitions - and also, the morale⁵ of the Russian troops is at the lowest, I think, that probably ever existed in the Russian army historically. This is indication to us that in the end, Ukraine will prevail. How you define success and victory - this is up to President Zelenskyy and his people. We are helping⁶ them fight the war, prevail in this war. And the terms of some form of political conclusion sometime down the road - they belong to President Zelenskyy and his brave people.

INSKEEP: Granting just what you said, that it belongs to Ukrainians and the president there to decide, it seems to me there's two plausible⁷ end states that you could push for. One is to push Russians entirely⁸ out of all of Ukraine. But the other is to push them back and leave them only in control of the parts of Ukraine they seized in 2014. Is it imaginable that that could be the solution, pushing Russians back to the borders that they claimed in 2014?

GEOANA: Yeah, there are, again, two dimensions to this conversation. The first one is the balance of power and the results on the battlefield. And here, we are convinced, and we have confidence, that Ukraine would eventually prevail on the battlefield. The second dimension, which is always important, is the political discussion. And this is, again, up to President Zelenskyy and his judgment⁹ to define where he feels strong enough to engage with Putin, if Putin wants to engage, on a position of strength and eventually coming out with a political solution. But for the time being, we see the dynamic of this war going in Ukraine's favor. And the more the Russian attrition continues and the more equipped and trained the Ukrainian army is, the odds¹⁰, I think, by the day, go in Ukraine's favor. And we do everything we can as NATO allies to support that end of this conflict.

INSKEEP: Deputy Secretary General, as everybody knows, NATO nations would like to avoid an escalation¹¹ of this war, would like to avoid other countries being attacked or Russia getting an excuse to attack other countries. And given that, is there any risk in how very, very open NATO nations have been about their support for Ukraine - not just sending weapons, but news leaks indicating the U.S. helped to target a Russian ship and other things?

GEOANA: Secretary General Stoltenberg and myself and the leadership of NATO - we have a triple obligation. The first one is to continue to support Ukraine. And this is working very, very well. The second obligation is to defend NATO territory and populations. And the third obligation we have is to avoid the risk of escalation...

INSKEEP: There we go.

GEOANA: ...And having a war between NATO and Russia. And all three fronts can be done and will be done together, helping Ukraine, defending allies and avoiding escalation with Russia.

INSKEEP: One other thing to ask about here - what is your plan to safely accept Finland or Sweden as new NATO members, if they should request NATO membership? It seems there could be a tricky¹² transition there.

GEOANA: The two countries are very close partners to NATO for many, many years. We've been exercising together. We've been exchanging strategic, political and military issues over time. I can say one thing. If they decide to ask becoming members of NATO, our response would be very warm, and the process would be very expeditious¹³. And people might ask why we would eventually do this in a very compressed timeline. For the very reason I mentioned at the beginning - both countries are strong democracies. They have impeccable militaries, and they have a level of interoperability already with NATO that is just at the highest levels. So my anticipation¹⁴, if they decide - it's their democratic right to choose their destiny. And as the policy of NATO, open-door policy is a reality of NATO.

INSKEEP: A couple of NATO nations tried to cultivate good relations with Russia. Could a single NATO nation block the membership of Finland or Sweden?

GEOANA: NATO is an organization working by consensus¹⁵. But I have not sensed any opposition¹⁶ from any of the member states and the allies in NATO. So it is my anticipation that if they decide, allies will be acting¹⁷ quickly, receiving them warmly, and this will be in unanimity¹⁸.

INSKEEP: Mircea Geoana is deputy secretary general of NATO. Thanks for your time, sir.

GEOANA: My pleasure.

1 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

2 looms   

n.织布机( loom的名词复数 )v.隐约出现，阴森地逼近( loom的第三人称单数 )；隐约出现，阴森地逼近

参考例句：

• All were busily engaged,men at their ploughs,women at their looms. 大家都很忙，男的耕田，女的织布。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• The factory has twenty-five looms. 那家工厂有25台织布机。 来自《简明英汉词典》

3 narratives   

记叙文( narrative的名词复数 )； 故事； 叙述； 叙述部分

参考例句：

• Marriage, which has been the bourne of so many narratives, is still a great beginning. 结婚一向是许多小说的终点，然而也是一个伟大的开始。
• This is one of the narratives that children are fond of. 这是孩子们喜欢的故事之一。

4 depleting   

使大大的减少，使空虚( deplete的现在分词 )； 耗尽，使枯竭

参考例句：

• Regulations are outlawing certain refrigerants, such as chlorofluorocarbons, which contain ozone-depleting chemicals. 随后出台的政策禁用了部分制冷剂，如破坏臭氧层的氟氯碳化合物。
• Aging, being a series of continual losses, can be keenly depleting. 老龄化，作为一个系列的连续亏损，可以清楚地消耗。

5 morale   

n.道德准则，士气，斗志

参考例句：

• The morale of the enemy troops is sinking lower every day.敌军的士气日益低落。
• He tried to bolster up their morale.他尽力鼓舞他们的士气。

6 helping   

n.食物的一份&adj.帮助人的，辅助的

参考例句：

• The poor children regularly pony up for a second helping of my hamburger. 那些可怜的孩子们总是要求我把我的汉堡包再给他们一份。
• By doing this, they may at times be helping to restore competition. 这样一来, 他在某些时候,有助于竞争的加强。

7 plausible   

adj.似真实的，似乎有理的，似乎可信的

参考例句：

• His story sounded plausible.他说的那番话似乎是真实的。
• Her story sounded perfectly plausible.她的说辞听起来言之有理。

8 entirely   

ad.全部地，完整地；完全地，彻底地

参考例句：

• The fire was entirely caused by their neglect of duty. 那场火灾完全是由于他们失职而引起的。
• His life was entirely given up to the educational work. 他的一生统统献给了教育工作。

9 judgment   

n.审判；判断力，识别力，看法，意见

参考例句：

• The chairman flatters himself on his judgment of people.主席自认为他审视人比别人高明。
• He's a man of excellent judgment.他眼力过人。

10 odds   

n.让步，机率，可能性，比率；胜败优劣之别

参考例句：

• The odds are 5 to 1 that she will win.她获胜的机会是五比一。
• Do you know the odds of winning the lottery once?你知道赢得一次彩票的几率多大吗？

11 escalation   

n.扩大，增加

参考例句：

• The threat of nuclear escalation remains. 核升级的威胁仍旧存在。 来自辞典例句
• Escalation is thus an aspect of deterrence and of crisis management. 因此逐步升级是威慑和危机处理的一个方面。 来自辞典例句

12 tricky   

adj.狡猾的，奸诈的；(工作等)棘手的，微妙的

参考例句：

• I'm in a rather tricky position.Can you help me out?我的处境很棘手，你能帮我吗？
• He avoided this tricky question and talked in generalities.他回避了这个非常微妙的问题，只做了个笼统的表述。

13 expeditious   

adj.迅速的，敏捷的

参考例句：

• They are almost as expeditious and effectual as Aladdin's lamp.他们几乎像如意神灯那么迅速有效。
• It is more convenien,expeditious and economical than telephone or telegram.它比电话或电报更方便、迅速和经济。

14 anticipation   

n.预期，预料，期望

参考例句：

• We waited at the station in anticipation of her arrival.我们在车站等着，期待她的到来。
• The animals grew restless as if in anticipation of an earthquake.各种动物都变得焦躁不安，像是感到了地震即将发生。

15 consensus   

n.(意见等的)一致，一致同意，共识

参考例句：

• Can we reach a consensus on this issue?我们能在这个问题上取得一致意见吗？
• What is the consensus of opinion at the afternoon meeting?下午会议上一致的意见是什么？

16 opposition   

n.反对，敌对

参考例句：

• The party leader is facing opposition in his own backyard.该党领袖在自己的党內遇到了反对。
• The police tried to break down the prisoner's opposition.警察设法制住了那个囚犯的反抗。

17 acting   

n.演戏，行为，假装；adj.代理的，临时的，演出用的

参考例句：

• Ignore her,she's just acting.别理她，她只是假装的。
• During the seventies,her acting career was in eclipse.在七十年代，她的表演生涯黯然失色。

18 unanimity   

n.全体一致，一致同意

参考例句：

• These discussions have led to a remarkable unanimity.这些讨论导致引人注目的一致意见。
• There is no unanimity of opinion as to the best one.没有一个公认的最好意见。