美国国家公共电台 NPR--Roe supporters deserved a more thoughtful Supreme Court opinion, Sarah Isgur says

Roe¹ supporters deserved a more thoughtful Supreme² Court opinion, Sarah Isgur says

Transcript³

NPR's Steve Inskeep speaks to Sarah Isgur, a lawyer and a former Justice Department spokesperson in the Trump⁴ administration, about her take on the delivery of the Supreme Court opinions.

STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:

Recent rulings by the Supreme Court said a lot, both in substance and in style. Written opinions on abortion⁵, guns, religion and government regulation showed passionate⁶ disagreement. Justice Samuel Alito said he overturned Roe v. Wade⁷ because it was, quote, "egregiously⁸ wrong," and he questioned the motives⁹ of those who disagreed. This week, we heard Curt¹⁰ Levey of the conservative Federalist Society who said he supports the decision and understands its tone.

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CURT LEVEY: Roe always frankly¹¹ made me angry because it's such a made-up doctrine¹². And I have to assume that Alito and the others felt the same.

INSKEEP: Sarah Isgur has a different view of the tone. She is a lawyer and former Justice Department spokesperson in the Trump administration. She argues the abortion ruling and other recent court rulings make little effort to persuade those who disagree. Isgur calls attention to an opinion in a different tone. Also in the abortion case - Chief Justice John Roberts said, quote, "both the court's opinion and the dissent¹³ display a relentless¹⁴ freedom from doubt on the legal issue that I cannot share." Why does that sentence speak to you?

SARAH ISGUR: I think it is both a problem that has plagued our legal system for a long time, but it's also plagued our politics as well - this idea that both sides have a relentless freedom from doubt. And yet our history is filled with people being so wrong about fundamental moral issues that it strikes me as weird¹⁵, arrogant¹⁶ and naive¹⁷, frankly, to be so sure that you're currently on the right side of every issue that you believe. And when it comes to judicial¹⁸ opinions, the Supreme Court has been on the wrong side of some of the most major questions facing our country throughout this 200-plus-year experiment that we've been running in self-government.

INSKEEP: Isn't Justice Alito, who wrote the abortion ruling, essentially¹⁹ saying, yeah, the Supreme Court has made mistakes, and I'm the guy who's correcting one?

ISGUR: Isn't it funny to always assume that the other people are Plessy and that you're Brown v. Board of Education? It seems just as likely. You know, Plessy was a 7-1 decision that held - upheld a Louisiana law that created separate but equal railcars for their railroad system. And seven justices had that relentless freedom from doubt that they were on the wrong side. One, John Marshall Harlan, dissented²⁰. And his dissent is famous. His portrait hangs in the conference that the Supreme Court justices today decide the cases in.

And so I just feel like all of us, whether you're a Supreme Court justice or sitting here talking today - there are issues in which we're in the seven on Plessy. And hopefully there are a few issues in which we're the one, that we're Justice Harlan, and we're seeing something more clearly than our culture or our friends. But to assume you know which is which is arrogant.

INSKEEP: Let's be a little specific here, if we can. What betrays that tone in Justice Alito's ruling?

ISGUR: It's not that Alito was overturning Roe. It was the words he was using to do it. And it almost points an almost snarky tone, that obviously Roe was wrongly decided²¹, egregiously so, and that, frankly, those that disagreed about whether there could be a constitutional right to an abortion were being stupid or insincere was certainly the feeling that you left with reading that opinion. So many of the court's correct decision of overturn wrong decisions and, frankly, vice²² versa - to come to that with some humility²³, judicial humility, but also just humility for our place in history - all of that was missing for me.

INSKEEP: Now, Justice Roberts alleged²⁴ the dissent in the abortion case also had that freedom from doubt. Now, I've been reading that. I do want to say it's not exactly the same as Alito's ruling. It's a different writing style. It's different justices. But do you see signs of that same overconfidence there?

ISGUR: Yes. I think it's always a little different when you're in the dissent, frankly. That being said, absolutely. To say that the history of the Constitution did protect the right to an abortion, obviously, and that overturning Roe is going to be remembered as obviously, you know, a stain on the Supreme Court's credibility and, you know, its trust as an American institution I also think shows a relentless freedom from doubt. I don't know why I would assume that either.

INSKEEP: Do you see this kind of overconfidence or overcertainty or hyperbole at the lower court level as well?

ISGUR: Absolutely. We see this at the lower court level. And it's increasing in its pace in how often we see it. And I think that that is due to getting rid of the judicial filibuster²⁵. It's really changed who wants to become a judge, who gets to become a judge and how they act once they're on the bench, especially in those lower court positions where, you know, everyone's always angling for a promotion²⁶ of some kind. A district judge wants to be a circuit judge. A circuit judge wants to be on that shortlist for the Supreme Court. When we had the judicial filibuster, you always needed to get votes from the opposing political party of whatever president might appoint you. And so the people who were able, interested in those jobs were some that could make the case that they were going to get votes from that opposing party.

Once that judicial filibuster was gone, everyone went the exact opposite way because you didn't need votes from the other side. In fact, you were more at risk of losing votes from your own side - you know, whoever controlled the Senate and the presidency²⁷. And so I do think we see that in the lower courts, of people auditioning²⁸, if you will. And I think that's not good for the institution of the third branch of government.

INSKEEP: If a judge or a justice gives one of these fiery²⁹ opinions completely free of doubt, that makes them sound like a partisan³⁰, are they undermining what is supposed to be a nonpartisan institution?

ISGUR: I think they're undermining the institution. I think they're undermining their fellow judges. And again, I think that they're acting³¹ within their incentives³², unfortunately. I think that judges want to be heralded³³ for their opinions, known for their judicial philosophy, which can be ideological³⁴ on both sides. We've certainly seen that. And so the more we insulate judges, make them the least dangerous branch as they were described in the Federalist Papers, the better. Bring back the judicial filibuster. Stop talking about judges as purely³⁵ ideological actors. And give credit where it's due on those opinions that are persuasive³⁶.

INSKEEP: Sarah Isgur, thanks so much. It's been a pleasure talking with you.

ISGUR: Thanks for having me.

INSKEEP: She is a lawyer and former Justice Department spokesperson in the Trump administration.

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1 roe   

n.鱼卵；獐鹿

参考例句：

• We will serve smoked cod's roe at the dinner.宴会上我们将上一道熏鳕鱼子。
• I'll scramble some eggs with roe?我用鱼籽炒几个鸡蛋好吗？

2 supreme   

adj.极度的，最重要的；至高的，最高的

参考例句：

• It was the supreme moment in his life.那是他一生中最重要的时刻。
• He handed up the indictment to the supreme court.他把起诉书送交最高法院。

3 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

4 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

5 abortion   

n.流产，堕胎

参考例句：

• She had an abortion at the women's health clinic.她在妇女保健医院做了流产手术。
• A number of considerations have led her to have a wilful abortion.多种考虑使她执意堕胎。

6 passionate   

adj.热情的，热烈的，激昂的，易动情的，易怒的，性情暴躁的

参考例句：

• He is said to be the most passionate man.据说他是最有激情的人。
• He is very passionate about the project.他对那个项目非常热心。

7 wade   

v.跋涉，涉水；n.跋涉

参考例句：

• We had to wade through the river to the opposite bank.我们只好涉水过河到对岸。
• We cannot but wade across the river.我们只好趟水过去。

8 egregiously   

adv.过份地，卓越地

参考例句：

• But previous Greek governments egregiously violated those limits. 但之前几届希腊政府都严重违反了这些限制。 来自互联网

9 motives   

n.动机，目的( motive的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• to impeach sb's motives 怀疑某人的动机
• His motives are unclear. 他的用意不明。

10 curt   

adj.简短的，草率的

参考例句：

• He gave me an extremely curt answer.他对我作了极为草率的答复。
• He rapped out a series of curt commands.他大声发出了一连串简短的命令。

11 frankly   

adv.坦白地，直率地；坦率地说

参考例句：

• To speak frankly, I don't like the idea at all.老实说，我一点也不赞成这个主意。
• Frankly speaking, I'm not opposed to reform.坦率地说，我不反对改革。

12 doctrine   

n.教义；主义；学说

参考例句：

• He was impelled to proclaim his doctrine.他不得不宣扬他的教义。
• The council met to consider changes to doctrine.宗教议会开会考虑更改教义。

13 dissent   

n./v.不同意，持异议

参考例句：

• It is too late now to make any dissent.现在提出异议太晚了。
• He felt her shoulders gave a wriggle of dissent.他感到她的肩膀因为不同意而动了一下。

14 relentless   

adj.残酷的，不留情的，无怜悯心的

参考例句：

• The traffic noise is relentless.交通车辆的噪音一刻也不停止。
• Their training has to be relentless.他们的训练必须是无情的。

15 weird   

adj.古怪的，离奇的；怪诞的，神秘而可怕的

参考例句：

• From his weird behaviour,he seems a bit of an oddity.从他不寻常的行为看来，他好像有点怪。
• His weird clothes really gas me.他的怪衣裳简直笑死人。

16 arrogant   

adj.傲慢的，自大的

参考例句：

• You've got to get rid of your arrogant ways.你这骄傲劲儿得好好改改。
• People are waking up that he is arrogant.人们开始认识到他很傲慢。

17 naive   

adj.幼稚的，轻信的；天真的

参考例句：

• It's naive of you to believe he'll do what he says.相信他会言行一致，你未免太单纯了。
• Don't be naive.The matter is not so simple.你别傻乎乎的。事情没有那么简单。

18 judicial   

adj.司法的，法庭的，审判的，明断的，公正的

参考例句：

• He is a man with a judicial mind.他是个公正的人。
• Tom takes judicial proceedings against his father.汤姆对他的父亲正式提出诉讼。

19 essentially   

adv.本质上，实质上，基本上

参考例句：

• Really great men are essentially modest.真正的伟人大都很谦虚。
• She is an essentially selfish person.她本质上是个自私自利的人。

20 dissented   

不同意，持异议( dissent的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• We dissented from the decision. 对那项决定我们表示了不同意见。
• He dissented and questioned the justice of the award. 他提出质问，说裁判不公允。

21 decided   

adj.决定了的，坚决的；明显的，明确的

参考例句：

• This gave them a decided advantage over their opponents.这使他们比对手具有明显的优势。
• There is a decided difference between British and Chinese way of greeting.英国人和中国人打招呼的方式有很明显的区别。

22 vice   

n.坏事；恶习；[pl.]台钳，老虎钳；adj.副的

参考例句：

• He guarded himself against vice.他避免染上坏习惯。
• They are sunk in the depth of vice.他们堕入了罪恶的深渊。

23 humility   

n.谦逊，谦恭

参考例句：

• Humility often gains more than pride.谦逊往往比骄傲收益更多。
• His voice was still soft and filled with specious humility.他的声音还是那么温和，甚至有点谦卑。

24 alleged   

a.被指控的，嫌疑的

参考例句：

• It was alleged that he had taken bribes while in office. 他被指称在任时收受贿赂。
• alleged irregularities in the election campaign 被指称竞选运动中的不正当行为

25 filibuster   

n.妨碍议事，阻挠；v.阻挠

参考例句：

• A senator dragged the subject in as a filibuster.一个参议员硬把这个题目拉扯进来，作为一种阻碍议事的手法。
• The democrats organized a filibuster in the senate.民主党党员在参议院上组织了阻挠议事。

26 promotion   

n.提升，晋级；促销，宣传

参考例句：

• The teacher conferred with the principal about Dick's promotion.教师与校长商谈了迪克的升级问题。
• The clerk was given a promotion and an increase in salary.那个职员升了级，加了薪。

27 presidency   

n.总统(校长，总经理)的职位(任期)

参考例句：

• Roosevelt was elected four times to the presidency of the United States.罗斯福连续当选四届美国总统。
• Two candidates are emerging as contestants for the presidency.两位候选人最终成为总统职位竞争者。

28 auditioning   

vi.试听（audition的现在分词形式）

参考例句：

• She was auditioning for the role of Lady Macbeth. 她试演了麦克佩斯夫人的角色。
• Which part are you auditioning for? 你试音什么角色？ 来自《简明英汉词典》

29 fiery   

adj.燃烧着的，火红的；暴躁的；激烈的

参考例句：

• She has fiery red hair.她有一头火红的头发。
• His fiery speech agitated the crowd.他热情洋溢的讲话激动了群众。

30 partisan   

adj.党派性的；游击队的；n.游击队员；党徒

参考例句：

• In their anger they forget all the partisan quarrels.愤怒之中，他们忘掉一切党派之争。
• The numerous newly created partisan detachments began working slowly towards that region.许多新建的游击队都开始慢慢地向那里移动。

31 acting   

n.演戏，行为，假装；adj.代理的，临时的，演出用的

参考例句：

• Ignore her,she's just acting.别理她，她只是假装的。
• During the seventies,her acting career was in eclipse.在七十年代，她的表演生涯黯然失色。

32 incentives   

激励某人做某事的事物( incentive的名词复数 )； 刺激； 诱因； 动机

参考例句：

• tax incentives to encourage savings 鼓励储蓄的税收措施
• Furthermore, subsidies provide incentives only for investments in equipment. 更有甚者，提供津贴仅是为鼓励增添设备的投资。 来自英汉非文学 - 环境法 - 环境法

33 heralded   

v.预示( herald的过去式和过去分词 )；宣布（好或重要）

参考例句：

• The singing of the birds heralded in the day. 鸟鸣报晓。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• A fanfare of trumpets heralded the arrival of the King. 嘹亮的小号声宣告了国王驾到。 来自《简明英汉词典》

34 ideological   

a.意识形态的

参考例句：

• He always tries to link his study with his ideological problems. 他总是把学习和自己的思想问题联系起来。
• He helped me enormously with advice on how to do ideological work. 他告诉我怎样做思想工作，对我有很大帮助。

35 purely   

adv.纯粹地，完全地

参考例句：

• I helped him purely and simply out of friendship.我帮他纯粹是出于友情。
• This disproves the theory that children are purely imitative.这证明认为儿童只会单纯地模仿的理论是站不住脚的。

36 persuasive   

adj.有说服力的，能说得使人相信的

参考例句：

• His arguments in favour of a new school are very persuasive.他赞成办一座新学校的理由很有说服力。
• The evidence was not really persuasive enough.证据并不是太有说服力。