美国国家公共电台 NPR--Some insight into what's been learned from the documents seized at Mar-a-Lago

Some insight into what's been learned from the documents seized at Mar-a-Lago

Transcript¹

NPR's Leila Fadel talks to David Laufman, former head of the Justice Department's counterintelligence and export control section, about materials seized by the FBI at Trump²'s Florida home last week.

LEILA FADEL, HOST:

Documents classified as confidential³ and top secret, a grant of clemency⁴ for Roger Stone, some kind of material about the president of France - that's just some of what FBI agents seized from former President Donald Trump's Florida residence last week. A federal judge unsealed the search warrant for evidence of, quote, "three potential crimes." Also unsealed was a property receipt of the things that were taken from Trump's home. For insights into what we can learn from these documents, we're turning to David Laufman. He's an attorney who used to lead the Justice Department's counterintelligence division. He oversaw⁵ the inquiries⁶ into former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's emails and the early investigations⁸ into Russia's attempts to influence the 2016 election.

David, good morning, and welcome to the program.

DAVID LAUFMAN: Thank you, Leila. Good morning to you.

FADEL: Now, I wanted to start with these documents that were found at Trump's home. What were your initial thoughts when you saw what he'd taken from the White House?

LAUFMAN: Well, look. What FBI agents found in Mar-a-Lago completely validated⁹ the government's application for the search warrant and likely was consistent with what sources cited in the search warrant affidavit¹⁰ - which we haven't yet seen - had told the government. I mean, they made clear that the former president of the United States apparently¹¹ was hoarding¹² highly classified documents - classified as highly as Top Secret/SCI. Those are sensitive compartmented information. That's the highest degree of concern. There's very sensitive sources and methods. He was keeping them at his private residence like some kind of personal petting zoo. And he and his team apparently were misleading the FBI and the department about the continued presence of classified material there.

FADEL: Now, you've said that the fact that he had SCI material - Top Secret/Secret Compartmented Information - in his home was stunning¹³, egregious¹⁴. Can you expand on why?

LAUFMAN: Well, I mean, these are highly sensitive documents that, by law, may only be kept in places authorized¹⁵ where they may be kept. Particularly, SCI documents have to be kept in something called a skiff, a compartmented facility with limited restricted access. They can't just be kept in someone's home. There's a lot of reasons why we don't want these documents available for people who aren't authorized to access them to access them, particularly foreign nationals or governments of foreign countries. We know this president has had a proclivity¹⁶ for a cavalier attitude toward protecting national security information, for disclosing sensitive information to foreign government officials. So I think there probably arose some kind of a hair-on-fire moment for the department when they realized that despite representations to the contrary, there was, in fact, and continued to be classified information out there in the wild at Mar-a-Lago that was not being protected.

FADEL: What did you make of the statement from Trump's office that he had a standing¹⁷ order to declassify¹⁸ documents he removed from the Oval Office to take home? Is that a defense¹⁹?

LAUFMAN: I mean, it's kind of a ludicrous, post-hoc rationalization for public consumption. It's true - well, the president has a kind of inherent constitutional authority to declassify documents, but it doesn't just happen by waving some magic wand and a thought bubble. There has to be some formality to the procedure. Customarily, when a president of the United States has declassified²⁰ information, there has been a directive that's memorialized contemporaneously in writing. It's communicated to other executive branch officials. It's a decision that is socialized with the U.S. intelligence community. It's an action that's flowed down to ensure there's understanding in every appropriate place that documents have been declassified; markings are removed. There's a formality that surrounds that. It doesn't just, you know, happen in the abstract.

FADEL: Now, this was just a search. And former President Trump is not charged with anything. But I want to ask - these documents and what's potentially detailed²¹ in them - what they say about possible charges, if any, former President Trump could face.

LAUFMAN: Well, there have been many cases charged under the Espionage²² Act under the provisions regarding unlawful retention²³, as opposed to transmission or disclosure to other parties. I have prosecuted²⁴ cases like that myself. I oversaw many cases like that. But every case has its own factual ecosystem²⁵. The department decides these cases, evaluates them on an extremely molecular²⁶, fact-specific basis. And what they'll be looking for in particular to inform their judgment²⁷ about whether to bring criminal charges or whether there are aggravating²⁸ factors in this case - you know, those would concern things like the quantity of classified information found there, the level of classification and sensitivity, where it was found, the circumstances in which it was found, how it got there, who had access to it, whether it was disclosed to anybody.

And they're going to have more investigation⁷ to do. They're going to have to now unpack²⁹, so to speak, these documents and engage in further witness interviews. They're going to want to find out more about how these particular documents came to be shipped from the White House to Mar-a-Lago, why they were shipped. Who made the decision to do that? Who decided³⁰ which documents in particular were going to be shipped to Mar-a-Lago? And to what extent was Trump involved or others involved?

FADEL: David Laufman is a former chief of the Justice Department's Counterintelligence and Export Control Section. Thank you so much for your time.

LAUFMAN: Thank you, Leila.

1 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

2 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

3 confidential   

adj.秘（机）密的，表示信任的，担任机密工作的

参考例句：

• He refused to allow his secretary to handle confidential letters.他不让秘书处理机密文件。
• We have a confidential exchange of views.我们推心置腹地交换意见。

4 clemency   

n.温和，仁慈，宽厚

参考例句：

• The question of clemency would rest with the King.宽大处理问题，将由国王决定。
• They addressed to the governor a plea for clemency.他们向州长提交了宽刑的申辨书。

5 oversaw   

v.监督，监视( oversee的过去式 )

参考例句：

• He will go down as the president who oversaw two historic transitions. 他将作为见证了巴西两次历史性转变的总统，安然引退。 来自互联网
• Dixon oversaw the project as creative director of Design Research Studio. 狄克逊监督项目的创意总监设计研究工作室。 来自互联网

6 inquiries   

n.调查( inquiry的名词复数 )；疑问；探究；打听

参考例句：

• He was released on bail pending further inquiries. 他获得保释，等候进一步调查。
• I have failed to reach them by postal inquiries. 我未能通过邮政查询与他们取得联系。 来自《现代汉英综合大词典》

7 investigation   

n.调查，调查研究

参考例句：

• In an investigation,a new fact became known, which told against him.在调查中新发现了一件对他不利的事实。
• He drew the conclusion by building on his own investigation.他根据自己的调查研究作出结论。

8 investigations   

（正式的）调查( investigation的名词复数 )； 侦查； 科学研究； 学术研究

参考例句：

• His investigations were intensive and thorough but revealed nothing. 他进行了深入彻底的调查，但没有发现什么。
• He often sent them out to make investigations. 他常常派他们出去作调查。

9 validated   

v.证实( validate的过去式和过去分词 )；确证；使生效；使有法律效力

参考例句：

• Time validated our suspicion. 时间证实了我们的怀疑。 来自《现代英汉综合大词典》
• The decade of history since 1927 had richly validated their thesis. 1927年以来的十年的历史，充分证明了他们的论点。 来自辞典例句

10 affidavit   

n.宣誓书

参考例句：

• I gave an affidavit to the judge about the accident I witnessed.我向法官提交了一份关于我目击的事故的证词。
• The affidavit was formally read to the court.书面证词正式向出席法庭的人宣读了。

11 apparently   

adv.显然地；表面上，似乎

参考例句：

• An apparently blind alley leads suddenly into an open space.山穷水尽，豁然开朗。
• He was apparently much surprised at the news.他对那个消息显然感到十分惊异。

12 hoarding   

n.贮藏；积蓄；临时围墙；囤积v.积蓄并储藏（某物）( hoard的现在分词 )

参考例句：

• After the war, they were shot for hoarding. 战后他们因囤积而被枪决。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• Actually he had two unused ones which he was hoarding up. 其实他还藏了两片没有用呢。 来自英汉文学

13 stunning   

adj.极好的；使人晕倒的

参考例句：

• His plays are distinguished only by their stunning mediocrity.他的戏剧与众不同之处就是平凡得出奇。
• The finished effect was absolutely stunning.完工后的效果非常美。

14 egregious   

adj.非常的，过分的

参考例句：

• When it comes to blatant lies,there are none more egregious than budget figures.谈到公众谎言，没有比预算数字更令人震惊的。
• What an egregious example was here!现摆着一个多么触目惊心的例子啊。

15 authorized   

a.委任的，许可的

参考例句：

• An administrative order is valid if authorized by a statute.如果一个行政命令得到一个法规的认可那么这个命令就是有效的。

16 proclivity   

n.倾向，癖性

参考例句：

• He has a proclivity toward violence.他有暴力的倾向。
• He has a proclivity for exaggeration.他总爱夸夸其谈。

17 standing   

n.持续，地位；adj.永久的，不动的，直立的，不流动的

参考例句：

• After the earthquake only a few houses were left standing.地震过后只有几幢房屋还立着。
• They're standing out against any change in the law.他们坚决反对对法律做任何修改。

18 declassify   

v.撤销保密

参考例句：

• These reports were only declassified last year.这些报告去年才被撤销了密级。
• Does the president have the power to declassify information?总统有权利解密相关信息吗？

19 defense   

n.防御，保卫；[pl.]防务工事；辩护，答辩

参考例句：

• The accused has the right to defense.被告人有权获得辩护。
• The war has impacted the area with military and defense workers.战争使那个地区挤满了军队和防御工程人员。

20 declassified   

adj.解密的v.对（机密文件等）销密( declassify的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• Thousands of classified documents have now been declassified. 数以千计的保密文件现在被解密了。
• The software used for Siemens S7-300 encryption logic block declassified. 此软件用于对西门子S7-300加密逻辑块解密。

21 detailed   

adj.详细的，详尽的，极注意细节的，完全的

参考例句：

• He had made a detailed study of the terrain.他对地形作了缜密的研究。
• A detailed list of our publications is available on request.我们的出版物有一份详细的目录备索。

22 espionage   

n.间谍行为，谍报活动

参考例句：

• The authorities have arrested several people suspected of espionage.官方已经逮捕了几个涉嫌从事间谍活动的人。
• Neither was there any hint of espionage in Hanley's early life.汉利的早期生活也毫无进行间谍活动的迹象。

23 retention   

n.保留，保持，保持力，记忆力

参考例句：

• They advocate the retention of our nuclear power plants.他们主张保留我们的核电厂。
• His retention of energy at this hour is really surprising.人们惊叹他在这个时候还能保持如此旺盛的精力。

24 prosecuted   

a.被起诉的

参考例句：

• The editors are being prosecuted for obscenity. 编辑因刊载污秽文字而被起诉。
• The company was prosecuted for breaching the Health and Safety Act. 这家公司被控违反《卫生安全条例》。

25 ecosystem   

n.生态系统

参考例句：

• This destroyed the ecosystem of the island.这样破坏了岛上的生态系统。
• We all have an interest in maintaining the integrity of the ecosystem.维持生态系统的完整是我们共同的利益。

26 molecular   

adj.分子的；克分子的

参考例句：

• The research will provide direct insight into molecular mechanisms.这项研究将使人能够直接地了解分子的机理。
• For the pressure to become zero, molecular bombardment must cease.当压强趋近于零时，分子的碰撞就停止了。

27 judgment   

n.审判；判断力，识别力，看法，意见

参考例句：

• The chairman flatters himself on his judgment of people.主席自认为他审视人比别人高明。
• He's a man of excellent judgment.他眼力过人。

28 aggravating   

adj.恼人的，讨厌的

参考例句：

• How aggravating to be interrupted! 被打扰，多令人生气呀！
• Diesel exhaust is particularly aggravating to many susceptible individuals. 许多体质敏感的人尤其反感柴油废气。

29 unpack   

vt.打开包裹（或行李），卸货

参考例句：

• I must unpack before dinner.我得在饭前把行李打开。
• She said she would unpack the items later.她说以后再把箱子里的东西拿出来。

30 decided   

adj.决定了的，坚决的；明显的，明确的

参考例句：

• This gave them a decided advantage over their opponents.这使他们比对手具有明显的优势。
• There is a decided difference between British and Chinese way of greeting.英国人和中国人打招呼的方式有很明显的区别。