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(单词翻译:双击或拖选)
Some insight into what's been learned from the documents seized at Mar-a-Lago
NPR's Leila Fadel talks to David Laufman, former head of the Justice Department's counterintelligence and export control section, about materials seized by the FBI at Trump2's Florida home last week.
LEILA FADEL, HOST:
Documents classified as confidential3 and top secret, a grant of clemency4 for Roger Stone, some kind of material about the president of France - that's just some of what FBI agents seized from former President Donald Trump's Florida residence last week. A federal judge unsealed the search warrant for evidence of, quote, "three potential crimes." Also unsealed was a property receipt of the things that were taken from Trump's home. For insights into what we can learn from these documents, we're turning to David Laufman. He's an attorney who used to lead the Justice Department's counterintelligence division. He oversaw5 the inquiries6 into former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's emails and the early investigations8 into Russia's attempts to influence the 2016 election.
David, good morning, and welcome to the program.
DAVID LAUFMAN: Thank you, Leila. Good morning to you.
FADEL: Now, I wanted to start with these documents that were found at Trump's home. What were your initial thoughts when you saw what he'd taken from the White House?
LAUFMAN: Well, look. What FBI agents found in Mar-a-Lago completely validated9 the government's application for the search warrant and likely was consistent with what sources cited in the search warrant affidavit10 - which we haven't yet seen - had told the government. I mean, they made clear that the former president of the United States apparently11 was hoarding12 highly classified documents - classified as highly as Top Secret/SCI. Those are sensitive compartmented information. That's the highest degree of concern. There's very sensitive sources and methods. He was keeping them at his private residence like some kind of personal petting zoo. And he and his team apparently were misleading the FBI and the department about the continued presence of classified material there.
FADEL: Now, you've said that the fact that he had SCI material - Top Secret/Secret Compartmented Information - in his home was stunning13, egregious14. Can you expand on why?
LAUFMAN: Well, I mean, these are highly sensitive documents that, by law, may only be kept in places authorized15 where they may be kept. Particularly, SCI documents have to be kept in something called a skiff, a compartmented facility with limited restricted access. They can't just be kept in someone's home. There's a lot of reasons why we don't want these documents available for people who aren't authorized to access them to access them, particularly foreign nationals or governments of foreign countries. We know this president has had a proclivity16 for a cavalier attitude toward protecting national security information, for disclosing sensitive information to foreign government officials. So I think there probably arose some kind of a hair-on-fire moment for the department when they realized that despite representations to the contrary, there was, in fact, and continued to be classified information out there in the wild at Mar-a-Lago that was not being protected.
FADEL: What did you make of the statement from Trump's office that he had a standing17 order to declassify18 documents he removed from the Oval Office to take home? Is that a defense19?
LAUFMAN: I mean, it's kind of a ludicrous, post-hoc rationalization for public consumption. It's true - well, the president has a kind of inherent constitutional authority to declassify documents, but it doesn't just happen by waving some magic wand and a thought bubble. There has to be some formality to the procedure. Customarily, when a president of the United States has declassified20 information, there has been a directive that's memorialized contemporaneously in writing. It's communicated to other executive branch officials. It's a decision that is socialized with the U.S. intelligence community. It's an action that's flowed down to ensure there's understanding in every appropriate place that documents have been declassified; markings are removed. There's a formality that surrounds that. It doesn't just, you know, happen in the abstract.
FADEL: Now, this was just a search. And former President Trump is not charged with anything. But I want to ask - these documents and what's potentially detailed21 in them - what they say about possible charges, if any, former President Trump could face.
LAUFMAN: Well, there have been many cases charged under the Espionage22 Act under the provisions regarding unlawful retention23, as opposed to transmission or disclosure to other parties. I have prosecuted24 cases like that myself. I oversaw many cases like that. But every case has its own factual ecosystem25. The department decides these cases, evaluates them on an extremely molecular26, fact-specific basis. And what they'll be looking for in particular to inform their judgment27 about whether to bring criminal charges or whether there are aggravating28 factors in this case - you know, those would concern things like the quantity of classified information found there, the level of classification and sensitivity, where it was found, the circumstances in which it was found, how it got there, who had access to it, whether it was disclosed to anybody.
And they're going to have more investigation7 to do. They're going to have to now unpack29, so to speak, these documents and engage in further witness interviews. They're going to want to find out more about how these particular documents came to be shipped from the White House to Mar-a-Lago, why they were shipped. Who made the decision to do that? Who decided30 which documents in particular were going to be shipped to Mar-a-Lago? And to what extent was Trump involved or others involved?
FADEL: David Laufman is a former chief of the Justice Department's Counterintelligence and Export Control Section. Thank you so much for your time.
LAUFMAN: Thank you, Leila.
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n.抄本,誊本,副本,肄业证书 | |
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trump
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n.王牌,法宝;v.打出王牌,吹喇叭 | |
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confidential
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adj.秘(机)密的,表示信任的,担任机密工作的 | |
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clemency
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n.温和,仁慈,宽厚 | |
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oversaw
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v.监督,监视( oversee的过去式 ) | |
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inquiries
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n.调查( inquiry的名词复数 );疑问;探究;打听 | |
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investigation
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n.调查,调查研究 | |
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investigations
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(正式的)调查( investigation的名词复数 ); 侦查; 科学研究; 学术研究 | |
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validated
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v.证实( validate的过去式和过去分词 );确证;使生效;使有法律效力 | |
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affidavit
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n.宣誓书 | |
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apparently
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adv.显然地;表面上,似乎 | |
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hoarding
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n.贮藏;积蓄;临时围墙;囤积v.积蓄并储藏(某物)( hoard的现在分词 ) | |
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stunning
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adj.极好的;使人晕倒的 | |
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egregious
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adj.非常的,过分的 | |
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authorized
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a.委任的,许可的 | |
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proclivity
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n.倾向,癖性 | |
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standing
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n.持续,地位;adj.永久的,不动的,直立的,不流动的 | |
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declassify
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v.撤销保密 | |
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defense
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n.防御,保卫;[pl.]防务工事;辩护,答辩 | |
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declassified
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adj.解密的v.对(机密文件等)销密( declassify的过去式和过去分词 ) | |
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detailed
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adj.详细的,详尽的,极注意细节的,完全的 | |
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espionage
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n.间谍行为,谍报活动 | |
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retention
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n.保留,保持,保持力,记忆力 | |
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prosecuted
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a.被起诉的 | |
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ecosystem
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n.生态系统 | |
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molecular
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adj.分子的;克分子的 | |
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judgment
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n.审判;判断力,识别力,看法,意见 | |
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aggravating
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adj.恼人的,讨厌的 | |
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unpack
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vt.打开包裹(或行李),卸货 | |
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decided
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adj.决定了的,坚决的;明显的,明确的 | |
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