美国国家公共电台 NPR--Does more policing make Black communities safer? Rep. Summer Lee responds

Does more policing make Black communities safer? Rep. Summer Lee responds

Transcript¹

NPR's Steve Inskeep speaks with Democratic Rep. Summer Lee of Pennsylvania about police reform — following the death of Tyre Nichols, who was severely³ beaten by police in Memphis, Tenn.

STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:

This is the first State of the Union speech for some lawmakers. They include the freshman⁴ Republicans who gave their party a narrow majority in the House. And they include a progressive Democrat², Summer Lee of Pennsylvania. We first met her on this program in 2020, when she was a rising state lawmaker from an old Pittsburgh suburb.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)

SUMMER LEE: We don't get a lot of Black women running for office. We don't get a lot of progressive folks running for office in western Pennsylvania.

INSKEEP: We talked while sitting in the Civic⁵ Square of Braddock, Pa., which is part of her district. One of the Pittsburgh area's last steel mills is just down the street.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)

LEE: What we ran on in this area was education and how it's connected to health care and how health care is connected to environment and how your environment is connected to your schools and the way that your kids perform.

INSKEEP: That was 2020, when she was a delegate to the Democratic National Convention and supported Joe Biden but voted against the party platform. She found it too conservative for her blue-collar, very diverse district where she wanted to attract first-time voters. In 2023, Representative Lee is thinking of police reform after the beating death of Tyre Nichols by police in Memphis.

How far apart are you from the president on the subject of police reform, which I believe Black lawmakers discussed with the president just the other day.

LEE: So I was not - I wasn't a part of the discussions. I don't know what his or the administration statements have been around policing, but I can already imagine that if they are the same that they've been, I think we're probably quite far apart on that. And I think that that is the difference between lived experience. For me, when I think about policing and when I think about truly the urgent situation, policing for me is a systemic issue. So the conversation has to shift. Even when we talk about good apples versus⁶ bad apples, that distracts us from a conversation about the institution itself, about the policies that support the institution or that bolster⁷ the institution and some of their practices.

INSKEEP: When you talk about systemic issues, the death of Tyre Nichols makes me think about a particular part of the system, and it's this. Memphis, where that killing⁸ happened, is a majority-Black city where the mayor and the city council name and confirm the police chief. There was a Black police chief in Memphis, and apparently⁹, there was genuine public concern in this majority-Black city about crime. People wanted something more done about crime. And the SCORPION¹⁰ unit, which ended up targeting Tyre Nichols, came out of that. What does it make you think about, that, apparently, the democratic process is what led to the unit that caused this man's death.

LEE: Certainly. When we think about systemic racial injustice¹¹ and inequity, we have to realize that this isn't a Democrat versus a Republican Party, right? It's a deeply entrenched¹² systemic issue that we have here. We actually need to be having a different conversation. When we think about what causes crime, we know that there is a correlation¹³ between poverty and crime - right? - not race and crime. It's poverty and crime. And we have to admit that we are falling short on solving our poverty issue. And there is inequity even within that. So when we think about Black communities, of course they want to be safe. That's very reasonable. Every community wants to be safe. The question is, does policing make us safer, yes or no? And the answer is more complicated than the conversation that we're having.

INSKEEP: So you're saying that Black communities are asking the right question and getting the wrong answer.

LEE: They're getting an incomplete answer.

INSKEEP: Getting an incomplete answer, meaning that police would be part of that answer, but there are so many other things that need to go into an anticrime strategy.

LEE: I think that the police should be the last answer. It should be the last resort.

INSKEEP: What do you want to do about this?

LEE: I think that, again, we have to expand the conversation. And, yes, we can also look at qualified¹⁴ immunity¹⁵. We can also ensure that we have accountability and oversight¹⁶ of police departments. I think we can make sure that we are investing in over-militarization. But I think that those are short-term and not long-term goals.

INSKEEP: I'm glad you mentioned qualified immunity. Of course, for those who don't follow this every day, that is what police officers enjoy when they are operating in an official capacity. It becomes harder to prosecute¹⁷ them in many cases for abuses. And there was a bill before Congress, the George Floyd Act, which would change qualified immunity, but it has not become law. Vice¹⁸ President Harris, the other day at Tyre Nichols' funeral said the George Floyd Act was non-negotiable. Although it occurs to me - I mean, it's a divided Congress. Nothing is going to pass unless something is negotiated. What do you think about that?

LEE: Well, I think that's a priorities concern. I think that we have a Republican Party that - their own stated agenda is public safety. So I think that we then start from there. If your stated goal is public safety, then we have to ask, which communities do you intend to help become safer? If the answer is all communities, then I think that, of course, that would mean that it's not off the table. It should be up for a vote in our next session.

INSKEEP: Do you need to hear the president say something about policing in the State of the Union address this week?

LEE: I would certainly hope that he would do so. Every time this happens, we call it a tipping point. So keeping that in mind and recognizing that our expectations are low after what this has exposed about our system and - right? - about our crisis with policing, I think that it's a bare minimum.

INSKEEP: Representative Summer Lee, it's a pleasure talking with you again. Thanks so much.

LEE: Oh, thank you so much for having me.

1 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

2 democrat   

n.民主主义者，民主人士；民主党党员

参考例句：

• The Democrat and the Public criticized each other.民主党人和共和党人互相攻击。
• About two years later,he was defeated by Democrat Jimmy Carter.大约两年后，他被民主党人杰米卡特击败。

3 severely   

adv.严格地；严厉地；非常恶劣地

参考例句：

• He was severely criticized and removed from his post.他受到了严厉的批评并且被撤了职。
• He is severely put down for his careless work.他因工作上的粗心大意而受到了严厉的批评。

4 freshman   

n.大学一年级学生(可兼指男女)

参考例句：

• Jack decided to live in during his freshman year at college.杰克决定大一时住校。
• He is a freshman in the show business.他在演艺界是一名新手。

5 civic   

adj.城市的，都市的，市民的，公民的

参考例句：

• I feel it is my civic duty to vote.我认为投票选举是我作为公民的义务。
• The civic leaders helped to forward the project.市政府领导者协助促进工程的进展。

6 versus   

prep.以…为对手，对；与…相比之下

参考例句：

• The big match tonight is England versus Spain.今晚的大赛是英格兰对西班牙。
• The most exciting game was Harvard versus Yale.最富紧张刺激的球赛是哈佛队对耶鲁队。

7 bolster   

n.枕垫；v.支持，鼓励

参考例句：

• The high interest rates helped to bolster up the economy.高利率使经济更稳健。
• He tried to bolster up their morale.他尽力鼓舞他们的士气。

8 killing   

n.巨额利润；突然赚大钱，发大财

参考例句：

• Investors are set to make a killing from the sell-off.投资者准备清仓以便大赚一笔。
• Last week my brother made a killing on Wall Street.上个周我兄弟在华尔街赚了一大笔。

9 apparently   

adv.显然地；表面上，似乎

参考例句：

• An apparently blind alley leads suddenly into an open space.山穷水尽，豁然开朗。
• He was apparently much surprised at the news.他对那个消息显然感到十分惊异。

10 scorpion   

n.蝎子，心黑的人，蝎子鞭

参考例句：

• The scorpion has a sting that can be deadly.蝎子有可以致命的螫针。
• The scorpion has a sting that can be deadly.蝎子有可以致命的螫针。

11 injustice   

n.非正义，不公正，不公平，侵犯（别人的）权利

参考例句：

• They complained of injustice in the way they had been treated.他们抱怨受到不公平的对待。
• All his life he has been struggling against injustice.他一生都在与不公正现象作斗争。

12 entrenched   

adj.确立的，不容易改的(风俗习惯)

参考例句：

• Television seems to be firmly entrenched as the number one medium for national advertising.电视看来要在全国广告媒介中牢固地占据头等位置。
• If the enemy dares to attack us in these entrenched positions,we will make short work of them.如果敌人胆敢进攻我们固守的阵地，我们就消灭他们。

13 correlation   

n.相互关系，相关，关连

参考例句：

• The second group of measurements had a high correlation with the first.第二组测量数据与第一组高度相关。
• A high correlation exists in America between education and economic position.教育和经济地位在美国有极密切的关系。

14 qualified   

adj.合格的，有资格的，胜任的，有限制的

参考例句：

• He is qualified as a complete man of letters.他有资格当真正的文学家。
• We must note that we still lack qualified specialists.我们必须看到我们还缺乏有资质的专家。

15 immunity   

n.优惠；免除；豁免，豁免权

参考例句：

• The law gives public schools immunity from taxation.法律免除公立学校的纳税义务。
• He claims diplomatic immunity to avoid being arrested.他要求外交豁免以便避免被捕。

16 oversight   

n.勘漏，失察，疏忽

参考例句：

• I consider this a gross oversight on your part.我把这件事看作是你的一大疏忽。
• Your essay was not marked through an oversight on my part.由于我的疏忽你的文章没有打分。

17 prosecute   

vt.告发；进行；vi.告发，起诉，作检察官

参考例句：

• I am trying my best to prosecute my duties.我正在尽力履行我的职责。
• Is there enough evidence to prosecute?有没有起诉的足够证据？

18 vice   

n.坏事；恶习；[pl.]台钳，老虎钳；adj.副的

参考例句：

• He guarded himself against vice.他避免染上坏习惯。
• They are sunk in the depth of vice.他们堕入了罪恶的深渊。