美国国家公共电台 NPR--'Navalny' director says Russian opposition leader's spirit is unbroken

'Navalny' director says Russian opposition¹ leader's spirit is unbroken

Transcript²

Director Daniel Roher first thought about making Alexei Navalny the subject of his latest documentary, when he was in Vienna, Austria, with Christo Grosev, an investigative journalist.

Navalany began his presidential campaign against the Kremlin in 2016. The campaign didn't lead to Navalny securing the executive chair, but he continued to organize nationwide "anti-Putin" protests. On Aug. 20, 2020, Navalany was poisoned with Novichok, a chemical that disrupts the ability of nerves to send messages to organs. Russia has never confirmed the nerve agent exists.

Grosev, a Russia investigator³ with Bellingcat, was investigating who poisoned the opposition leader, and Roher said Grosev informed him he might have a lead on the culprit.

A week later, in November 2020, Roher went with Grosev to meet Navalny in Germany, where he was staying to recover from the poisoning. It was there that Roher said he made an "emotional pitch" to Navalny about a documentary on his recovery and eventual⁴ return to Russia.

"Here's a guy who needs no help getting his message out to the world. He has a gigantic media presence, essentially⁵ social media companies, the YouTube channel that reaches hundreds of millions of people," Roher told NPR.

"Why then does he need a film? And that's what I had to convince him of, and that's what I had to enlighten him towards."

Navalny wasn't buying it, Roher said. So, he tried again.

"The other thing I told him is that if we don't start filming now, you'll never get it again, what's happening is happening in real time, we should start immediately."

The trailer for award-winning film 'Navalny"

Roher is not unfamiliar⁶ with sparking up conversation in uncanny settings. NPR's Steve Inskeep spoke⁷ to Roher about "Navalny" — which won "best documentary" at this year's BAFTA — while he was in a decommissioned refrigerator at the Ritz Theater in Elizabeth, New Jersey⁸. He was on the set of his wife Caroline Lindy's upcoming film.

"It's the quietest place I could find," Roher said. "But you might hear stuff outside."

Roher, who has Attention Deficit⁹ Disorder¹⁰, usually carries and paints out of a watercolor set because it helps him focus. He continued his brushstrokes and shared the latest news about Navalny during his conversation with Inskeep.

This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity. It includes some quotes from the interview with Roher that were not aired in the broadcast version.

What is it about Navalny that allows him to hold people's attention, whether he's on TikTok or in your documentary?

I think Navalny has a natural sort of God given charisma¹¹ but more than that, he's just so funny. I think what's important and what scholars and academics will write about is how Navalny weaponizes humor to further his political ambitions. People love watching what should be dry investigative anti-corruption videos, and it's because he's so entertaining and so charismatic.

How does Navalny grow his base of support?

I know it seems impossible from the current landscape in the current history we're living through. But Navalny is the only politician in Russia other than the governing regime that has a national profile that every Russian knows. And it seems to be just a part of Russian history that if you want to make your mark, you have to do your time in the gulag. Well, Navalny is putting in his time, he's forced to. And although that's very challenging for all of us, he's a man who asks of his supporters optimism, whose worldview is geared and oriented towards optimism, who through two years of torture and prison, has not lost his singular sense of humor and his lightness and his spirit is unbroken. I think as long as his spirit is unbroken, hope for millions of Russians is also unbroken.

His answer made me deeply uncomfortable. He essentially said, and people can watch the movie for themselves. But his essential answer was "the enemy of my enemy is my friend. How can I afford to alienate¹³ these crazy guys? Their goal is to get Putin out of power. And my goal is to get Putin out of power. Fine. We might as well join forces." Even though you know — this is me now, editorializing — their positions are deplorable.

What was your understanding of Navalny's thought process on returning to Russia?

Navalny went back with the expectation that he might have to sit in prison for ten years or five years. But he went back because he's a Russian politician and his people are the Russian people and he is deeply patriotic¹⁵. And he saw it as his patriotic duty to go back and do whatever he could to get rid of this brutal¹⁶, corrupt¹² regime that is destroying his country. And whether you agree with his politics or not, everyone can agree that that courage in the face of unspeakable evil is righteous and it sort of has this quality, if not if not me. Who and if not now, when? Navalny was the man at the right time. And he was the last guy standing¹⁴. He was the last meaningful oppositionist, the last meaningful opposition politician who went back to the country.

Steve Inskeep conducted the interview for the audio version of this story, produced by Nina Kravinsky and edited by Mohamad ElBardicy. Majd Al-Waheidi edited it for digital.

1 opposition   

n.反对，敌对

参考例句：

• The party leader is facing opposition in his own backyard.该党领袖在自己的党內遇到了反对。
• The police tried to break down the prisoner's opposition.警察设法制住了那个囚犯的反抗。

2 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

3 investigator   

n.研究者，调查者，审查者

参考例句：

• He was a special investigator for the FBI.他是联邦调查局的特别调查员。
• The investigator was able to deduce the crime and find the criminal.调查者能够推出犯罪过程并锁定罪犯。

4 eventual   

adj.最后的，结局的，最终的

参考例句：

• Several schools face eventual closure.几所学校面临最终关闭。
• Both parties expressed optimism about an eventual solution.双方对问题的最终解决都表示乐观。

5 essentially   

adv.本质上，实质上，基本上

参考例句：

• Really great men are essentially modest.真正的伟人大都很谦虚。
• She is an essentially selfish person.她本质上是个自私自利的人。

6 unfamiliar   

adj.陌生的，不熟悉的

参考例句：

• I am unfamiliar with the place and the people here.我在这儿人地生疏。
• The man seemed unfamiliar to me.这人很面生。

7 spoke   

n.（车轮的）辐条；轮辐；破坏某人的计划；阻挠某人的行动 v.讲，谈（speak的过去式）；说；演说；从某种观点来说

参考例句：

• They sourced the spoke nuts from our company.他们的轮辐螺帽是从我们公司获得的。
• The spokes of a wheel are the bars that connect the outer ring to the centre.辐条是轮子上连接外圈与中心的条棒。

8 jersey   

n.运动衫

参考例句：

• He wears a cotton jersey when he plays football.他穿运动衫踢足球。
• They were dressed alike in blue jersey and knickers.他们穿着一致，都是蓝色的运动衫和灯笼短裤。

9 deficit   

n.亏空，亏损；赤字，逆差

参考例句：

• The directors have reported a deficit of 2.5 million dollars.董事们报告赤字为250万美元。
• We have a great deficit this year.我们今年有很大亏损。

10 disorder   

n.紊乱，混乱；骚动，骚乱；疾病，失调

参考例句：

• When returning back,he discovered the room to be in disorder.回家后，他发现屋子里乱七八糟。
• It contained a vast number of letters in great disorder.里面七零八落地装着许多信件。

11 charisma   

n.(大众爱戴的)领袖气质，魅力

参考例句：

• He has enormous charisma. He is a giant of a man.他有超凡的个人魅力，是个伟人。
• I don't have the charisma to pull a crowd this size.我没有那么大的魅力，能吸引这么多人。

12 corrupt   

v.贿赂，收买；adj.腐败的，贪污的

参考例句：

• The newspaper alleged the mayor's corrupt practices.那家报纸断言市长有舞弊行为。
• This judge is corrupt.这个法官贪污。

13 alienate   

vt.使疏远，离间；转让(财产等)

参考例句：

• His attempts to alienate the two friends failed because they had complete faith.他离间那两个朋友的企图失败了，因为他们彼此完全信任。
• We'd better not alienate ourselves from the colleagues.我们最好还是不要与同事们疏远。

14 standing   

n.持续，地位；adj.永久的，不动的，直立的，不流动的

参考例句：

• After the earthquake only a few houses were left standing.地震过后只有几幢房屋还立着。
• They're standing out against any change in the law.他们坚决反对对法律做任何修改。

15 patriotic   

adj.爱国的，有爱国心的

参考例句：

• His speech was full of patriotic sentiments.他的演说充满了爱国之情。
• The old man is a patriotic overseas Chinese.这位老人是一位爱国华侨。

16 brutal   

adj.残忍的，野蛮的，不讲理的

参考例句：

• She has to face the brutal reality.她不得不去面对冷酷的现实。
• They're brutal people behind their civilised veneer.他们表面上温文有礼，骨子里却是野蛮残忍。