美国国家公共电台 NPR--What do self-described conservatives stand for in 2023?

What do self-described conservatives stand for in 2023?

Transcript¹

NPR's Steve Inskeep talks to conservative columnist² Jonah Goldberg, editor-in-chief of The Dispatch, about what potential 2024 presidential candidates best represent the Republican Party's base.

STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:

Here in the United States, two major political gatherings³ ended over the weekend. The differences between them showed the Republican Party's competing identities. On the one side, former President Trump⁴ headlined the Conservative Political Action Conference, or CPAC. On the other, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis attended the Club for Growth's private donor⁵ retreat. We're joined now by a longtime friend of the show, Jonah Goldberg, editor-in-chief of The Dispatch. Jonah, welcome back.

JONAH GOLDBERG: Always great to be here.

INSKEEP: Is there a substantive⁶ difference - not style, but substance - between the Trump approach to government and the DeSantis approach?

GOLDBERG: I think there's an enormous difference between the two guys. And it could be probably boiled down to DeSantis does his homework, and Donald Trump improvs everything. We saw the glandular⁷ style of Trump's presidency⁸ where he just sort of governed by tweet to the extent he governed at all. Ron DeSantis actually is a bit of a wonk. And I think that the real Ron DeSantis is more the guy who got that bridge open after the hurricane in three days than a lot of the sort of very online populist stuff that you see from him, which he does because that's what the base of the party wants. And he does his homework how to give it to them. But I think it's - you can call it cynical⁹ or you can call it smart politics. DeSantis is a much more deliberate, traditional conservative trying to deal with the times he's in. And Trump just does everything by touch and feel.

INSKEEP: You just used the word traditional. Let's talk about that. My impression from a distance is that DeSantis could be described as a traditionalist who is willing to use the government - use government power - to enforce his ideas about traditionalism.

GOLDBERG: I think that's certainly true, you know, given some of the controversies¹⁰ that are coming out of Florida. And I think it's sort of what the Republican Party wants. I think there's a general sentiment among sort of smart people in the Republican Party and also a lot of sort of boobs in the Republican Party that it's a fool's game to sort of just have a government that's neutral because they believe the left is never neutral. So you have to sort of fight fire with fire. The state's going to impose its values one way or the other. So the right says, let's at least impose ours. That's the crux¹¹ of a major argument on the right these days.

INSKEEP: And that, we should just underline, there was this other - I guess there still is in some quarters, this other idea of government among conservatives that there should be small government that shouldn't do very much except the most essential things, that taxes should be low, that regulations should be limited, that corporations should not be told what to do. We now have Republicans thinking that corporations, in fact, should be told what to do if their politics differ from the person in power.

GOLDBERG: Yeah, look, I mean, industrial policy by America - these kinds of ideas are essentially¹² bipartisan now. Everybody wants to pick winners and losers. It's just who - one party has one set of winners, and the other party has another set of winners and vice¹³ versa on the losers. And I'm like one of those Japanese soldiers still fighting World War II in '48 or '49...

INSKEEP: (Laughter).

GOLDBERG: ...Because I'm part of this remnant that actually wants Reaganite limited government and whatnot. We might have a comeback at some point. But right now, it's still a uphill slog.

INSKEEP: What do you think about when you hear Republicans also taking up the idea of being the working-class party? I understand they have a lot of working-class voters. But can they be the working-class party and pick up the old working-class rhetoric¹⁴ of the left?

GOLDBERG: They're certainly trying, you know? Marco Rubio and a bunch of people have been trying to do this. Josh Hawley has been trying to do this. The part of the problem is we're just seeing a giant transition. The FDR coalition¹⁵ that sustained the Democratic Party for a very long time is, in some ways, up for grabs. And Republicans are picking different pieces off that carcass. The problem is is that what that constituency wants doesn't really jive with traditional conservative notions in a lot of ways. And it's - there's a lot of ferment¹⁶ right now. And we saw, coming out of CPAC, that, you know, the populist wing and the sort of traditional Reaganite wing, they basically cannot - they cannot long endure in the same party is what I would argue.

INSKEEP: Well, we'll continue listening for your commentary as that debate evolves. Jonah, thanks very much for dropping by.

GOLDBERG: Thank you.

INSKEEP: Jonah Goldberg, among other things, is editor-in-chief of The Dispatch.

1 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

2 columnist   

n.专栏作家

参考例句：

• The host was interviewing a local columnist.节目主持人正在同一位当地的专栏作家交谈。
• She's a columnist for USA Today.她是《今日美国报》的专栏作家。

3 gatherings   

聚集( gathering的名词复数 )； 收集； 采集； 搜集

参考例句：

• His conduct at social gatherings created a lot of comment. 他在社交聚会上的表现引起许多闲话。
• During one of these gatherings a pupil caught stealing. 有一次，其中一名弟子偷窃被抓住。

4 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

5 donor   

n.捐献者；赠送人；(组织、器官等的)供体

参考例句：

• In these cases,the recipient usually takes care of the donor afterwards.在这类情况下，接受捐献者以后通常会照顾捐赠者。
• The Doctor transplanted the donor's heart to Mike's chest cavity.医生将捐赠者的心脏移植进麦克的胸腔。

6 substantive   

adj.表示实在的；本质的、实质性的；独立的；n.实词，实名词；独立存在的实体

参考例句：

• They plan to meet again in Rome very soon to begin substantive negotiations.他们计划不久在罗马再次会晤以开始实质性的谈判。
• A president needs substantive advice,but he also requires emotional succor. 一个总统需要实质性的建议，但也需要感情上的支持。

7 glandular   

adj.腺体的

参考例句：

• Terry has been laid low with glandular fever for nearly a month now.特里由于功能性高烧已卧床近一个月了。
• A malignant tumor originating in glandular tissue.腺癌起源于腺性组织的恶性肿瘤。

8 presidency   

n.总统(校长，总经理)的职位(任期)

参考例句：

• Roosevelt was elected four times to the presidency of the United States.罗斯福连续当选四届美国总统。
• Two candidates are emerging as contestants for the presidency.两位候选人最终成为总统职位竞争者。

9 cynical   

adj.(对人性或动机)怀疑的，不信世道向善的

参考例句：

• The enormous difficulty makes him cynical about the feasibility of the idea.由于困难很大，他对这个主意是否可行持怀疑态度。
• He was cynical that any good could come of democracy.他不相信民主会带来什么好处。

10 controversies   

争论

参考例句：

• We offer no comment on these controversies here. 对于这些争议，我们在这里不作任何评论。 来自英汉非文学 - 历史
• The controversies surrounding population growth are unlikely to subside soon. 围绕着人口增长问题的争论看来不会很快平息。 来自辞典例句

11 crux   

adj.十字形；难事，关键，最重要点

参考例句：

• The crux of the matter is how to comprehensively treat this trend.问题的关键是如何全面地看待这种趋势。
• The crux of the matter is that attitudes have changed.问题的要害是人们的态度转变了。

12 essentially   

adv.本质上，实质上，基本上

参考例句：

• Really great men are essentially modest.真正的伟人大都很谦虚。
• She is an essentially selfish person.她本质上是个自私自利的人。

13 vice   

n.坏事；恶习；[pl.]台钳，老虎钳；adj.副的

参考例句：

• He guarded himself against vice.他避免染上坏习惯。
• They are sunk in the depth of vice.他们堕入了罪恶的深渊。

14 rhetoric   

n.修辞学，浮夸之言语

参考例句：

• Do you know something about rhetoric?你懂点修辞学吗？
• Behind all the rhetoric,his relations with the army are dangerously poised.在冠冕堂皇的言辞背后，他和军队的关系岌岌可危。

15 coalition   

n.结合体，同盟，结合，联合

参考例句：

• The several parties formed a coalition.这几个政党组成了政治联盟。
• Coalition forces take great care to avoid civilian casualties.联盟军队竭尽全力避免造成平民伤亡。

16 ferment   

vt.使发酵；n./vt.（使）激动，（使）动乱

参考例句：

• Fruit juices ferment if they are kept a long time.果汁若是放置很久，就会发酵。
• The sixties were a time of theological ferment.六十年代是神学上骚动的时代。