美国国家公共电台 NPR--During a CNN town hall, Trump repeated false claims about the 2020 election

During a CNN town hall, Trump¹ repeated false claims about the 2020 election

Transcript²

NPR's Steve Inskeep speaks with Sarah Longwell, a GOP strategist and founder³ of the Republican Accountability Project, about Trump's comments, and how he was received by Republican voters.

STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:

Former President Trump appeared on a CNN town hall event last evening. The presidential candidate repeated his claims about the election he lost in 2020. He said he would pardon a large portion of people who attacked the Capitol on January 6, 2021. Our analyst⁴ Domenico Montanaro writes at npr.org that he lashed⁵ out at E. Jean Carroll, the woman who just won a defamation⁶ suit against him. Trump even re-endorsed his famous Access Hollywood tape, in which he said of grabbing women, quote, "when you're a star, they let you do it." When it was over, President Biden asked on Twitter, do you want four more years of that? Sarah Longwell joins us next. She is a Republican strategist and founder of the Republican Accountability Project. Welcome.

SARAH LONGWELL: Thanks for having me.

INSKEEP: We'll just note for people that you're no fan of Donald Trump. But you know Republican voters. You regularly listen to them in focus groups, small groups of people in a room. Did the former president do himself any favors last night?

LONGWELL: He probably didn't do himself favors with any swing voters, but he continues to cement his place as the frontrunner in the GOP primary. The thing that jumped out at me last night was the audience. The audience was clapping and cheering, even at parts that felt deeply horrible and inappropriate, like when he was attacking E. Jean Carroll. But it was a reminder⁷, I think, for people. And I know people are angry about that performance last night. But it's a reminder that a lot of these voters in Republican primaries are still very much on board with the former president, despite all his baggage. And I hear that from two-time Trump voters in these focus groups all the time, which is that, you know, no matter what he's done, they still have this deep relationship with him. And they're still interested in seeing him run again.

INSKEEP: He got me thinking last night about the difference between fact and narrative⁸. If you talk about individual facts, Trump lost all of his cases in the 2020 election. There's no evidence that's emerged of any kind of any credibility whatsoever⁹ about widespread fraud. But he's got this narrative that I was robbed. They're out to get me. Is that narrative what resonates with these two-time Trump voters that you're describing?

LONGWELL: That's right. You know, Trump tells them a story that they're willing to believe. I mean, one of the things that is striking to me is that Trump's 2024 rivals, people like Ron DeSantis - they're making an argument about electability. They're more electable than Trump. And the problem with that argument is that 70% of the Republican Party believes that Donald Trump won the last election. And one of the things - because Donald Trump is able to sort of say things in this way where he repeats them over and over again, and then the right-wing kind of infotainment media becomes this megaphone for it, when I listen to the voters, what I hear them do is they say Donald Trump's words right back to you.

You know, after he was indicted¹⁰ and he would say, you know, if they can do this to me, they can do this to you - and voters in the focus groups would say that. You'd say, well, what do you think about Trump getting indicted? And they say, well, it really makes me afraid, because if they can do it to Donald Trump, they can do it to me. And so this is where Donald Trump is able to create almost his own reality. I mean, that's what was happening last night. It was Kaitlan Collins trying to confront him with facts and Donald Trump weaving an entirely¹¹ alternate reality that a lot of his supporters are on board with because they live in that world. They live in that reality.

INSKEEP: I find this very interesting because we also have this image of the relatively¹² sophisticated Trump voter who says, I understand that he says so many things that are fake, that are false. I don't believe them all. But I believe in particular policies that he pursues. I believe in fighting against the enemies that he has. You're telling me, no. When you go into these regular focus groups with two-time Trump voters, you find a lot of people who see the world as he does.

LONGWELL: Yeah. I mean, one of the things I try to always explain to people is that, you know, every sort of Trump primary voter is not the same. Like, right now there is a chunk¹³ of the Republican Party that wants to move on from Trump. They are interested in an alternative candidate. They understand that Trump has, maybe, too much baggage to be electable, that he's problematic for a variety of ways. And those people often have been sort of DeSantis-curious. But then there's this other chunk of the party. I tend to call them Always Trumpers. And those are people for whom Trump has become their entire locus¹⁴ of politics. And so everybody doesn't always view things the same, but the sort of end result of accepting Trump as the GOP nominee¹⁵ and the only person who will fight hard for their values, they all kind of arrive at that same conclusion.

INSKEEP: Sarah Longwell, thanks very much. Really appreciate your insights.

LONGWELL: Thanks for having me.

INSKEEP: She is a Republican strategist and the founder of the Republican Accountability Project.

1 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

2 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

3 Founder   

n.创始者，缔造者

参考例句：

• He was extolled as the founder of their Florentine school.他被称颂为佛罗伦萨画派的鼻祖。
• According to the old tradition,Romulus was the founder of Rome.按照古老的传说，罗穆卢斯是古罗马的建国者。

4 analyst   

n.分析家，化验员；心理分析学家

参考例句：

• What can you contribute to the position of a market analyst?你有什么技能可有助于市场分析员的职务？
• The analyst is required to interpolate values between standards.分析人员需要在这些标准中插入一些值。

5 lashed   

adj.具睫毛的v.鞭打( lash的过去式和过去分词 )；煽动；紧系；怒斥

参考例句：

• The rain lashed at the windows. 雨点猛烈地打在窗户上。
• The cleverly designed speech lashed the audience into a frenzy. 这篇精心设计的演说煽动听众使他们发狂。 来自《简明英汉词典》

6 defamation   

n.诽谤；中伤

参考例句：

• Character defamation can be either oral or written.人格诽谤既可以是口头的也可以是书面的。
• The company sued for defamation.这个公司因受到诽谤而提起诉讼。

7 reminder   

n.提醒物，纪念品；暗示，提示

参考例句：

• I have had another reminder from the library.我又收到图书馆的催还单。
• It always took a final reminder to get her to pay her share of the rent.总是得发给她一份最后催缴通知，她才付应该交的房租。

8 narrative   

n.叙述，故事；adj.叙事的，故事体的

参考例句：

• He was a writer of great narrative power.他是一位颇有记述能力的作家。
• Neither author was very strong on narrative.两个作者都不是很善于讲故事。

9 whatsoever   

adv.（用于否定句中以加强语气）任何；pron.无论什么

参考例句：

• There's no reason whatsoever to turn down this suggestion.没有任何理由拒绝这个建议。
• All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you,do ye even so to them.你想别人对你怎样，你就怎样对人。

10 indicted   

控告，起诉( indict的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• The senator was indicted for murder. 那位参议员被控犯谋杀罪。
• He was indicted by a grand jury on two counts of murder. 他被大陪审团以两项谋杀罪名起诉。

11 entirely   

ad.全部地，完整地；完全地，彻底地

参考例句：

• The fire was entirely caused by their neglect of duty. 那场火灾完全是由于他们失职而引起的。
• His life was entirely given up to the educational work. 他的一生统统献给了教育工作。

12 relatively   

adv.比较...地，相对地

参考例句：

• The rabbit is a relatively recent introduction in Australia.兔子是相对较新引入澳大利亚的物种。
• The operation was relatively painless.手术相对来说不痛。

13 chunk   

n.厚片，大块，相当大的部分（数量）

参考例句：

• They had to be careful of floating chunks of ice.他们必须当心大块浮冰。
• The company owns a chunk of farmland near Gatwick Airport.该公司拥有盖特威克机场周边的大片农田。

14 locus   

n.中心

参考例句：

• Barcelona is the locus of Spanish industry.巴塞罗那是西班牙工业中心。
• Thereafter,the military remained the locus of real power.自此之后，军方一直掌握着实权。

15 nominee   

n.被提名者；被任命者；被推荐者

参考例句：

• His nominee for vice president was elected only after a second ballot.他提名的副总统在两轮投票后才当选。
• Mr.Francisco is standing as the official nominee for the post of District Secretary.弗朗西斯科先生是行政书记职位的正式提名人。