美国国家公共电台 NPR--Bolton, Trump's ex-national security adviser, calls for him to withdraw from the race

Bolton, Trump¹'s ex-national security adviser², calls for him to withdraw from the race

Transcript³

The indictment⁴ of former president Donald Trump over his handling of classified documents has drawn⁵ mixed reactions from his fellow Republicans.

Many GOP lawmakers and presidential candidates — including Trump himself — have defended his innocence⁶ and lashed⁷ out against what they're calling the weaponization of the U.S. Justice Department.

Some, however, have been more critical of Trump's actions. That camp includes several former members of his administration, like former Attorney General Bill Barr, who told Fox News Sunday that "if even half of it is true, then he's toast."

And on Monday, former national security adviser John Bolton said he too sees "big trouble for Donald Trump."

"I think this is a potentially catastrophic turn of events for him," Bolton told Morning Edition's Steve Inskeep. "It certainly should be, because if proven in trial ... it should put Trump in jail for a long time."

Bolton, who was Trump's third national security adviser from spring 2018 until his firing in the fall of 2019, is no stranger to the world of classified documents — or to criticizing Trump.

In 2020 Bolton published The Room Where It Happened, a memoir⁸ about his time in the White House that was highly critical of Trump's approach to foreign policy and the presidency⁹ in general.

The Trump administration sued to try to block the book's publication, alleging¹⁰ that Bolton hadn't gone through the proper clearance¹¹ process and that his manuscript contained classified information. A judge declined that request, but said Bolton's conduct raised national security concerns. The Biden administration dismissed the lawsuit¹² and prosecutors¹³ dropped a grand jury investigation¹⁴ the following year.

Several years later and on the cusp of another presidential election, Bolton is calling for Trump to be held to the same standard as anybody else.

If any of the tens of thousands of people in the federal government with security classification are found to deviate¹⁵ from the rules in the slightest, they face severe penalties, he says, including service members being discharged.

And he points to Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis' — one of Trump's primary challengers — comments over the weekend that he would have been "court-martialed in a New York minute" if he had retained classified documents while in the Navy.

"We have to hold everyone accountable equally, and that does not exclude the president," Bolton adds. "I think this is a real issue that's going to have profound impacts on our national security if we don't take it seriously."

He also thinks Trump should withdraw from the presidential race, though acknowledges that's not likely to happen.

"He will try and delay this trial past the election, hoping that he'll win and can then pardon himself," he says. "But a really innocent man would insist on trial at the earliest possible date."

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.

If Trump had followed standard procedures, if anybody could have trusted him with the documents, if he wanted to write a book about his time as president, there were procedures that could have been set up. He disregarded all of those, which is how the National Archives eventually took this case to the Justice Department. But it's the obstruction¹⁶, it's the refusal to give back the documents when they were demanded by subpoena¹⁷ and through extensive discussions about what was required, that's what tips this over the edge beyond any doubt.

On why the allegations are so serious — and believable

I think anybody who tries to say that somehow this isn't serious, this is a storage issue, are probably people who have never handled a classified document in their lives, don't understand what's at stake here, and it really is a national security issue. And Trump has displayed utter disdain¹⁸ for these constraints¹⁹. He did so, I saw it over and over again, when he was president. The conduct that's alleged²⁰ by the indictment is entirely²¹ believable to me ... the government has to prove it, and I hope they do it soon.

On the timing²² of Trump's legal proceedings²³

One real issue here is how quickly this goes to trial. Donald Trump says he's completely innocent. Well, if he's completely innocent he should want this stain on his reputation removed as soon as possible. An innocent person would say "I want a trial in a couple months." Let's see what Donald Trump does.

On Republicans' attacks on the Justice Department

Take it for granted Democrats²⁴ don't prosecute²⁵ Democrats, believe all that, that Hillary [Clinton] should have been prosecuted²⁶, that Joe Biden should be prosecuted and they weren't and that's an injustice²⁷. Accept that for the sake of argument and then ask these candidates the question: Does that mean you give Donald Trump a free pass? Is your answer to the double standard problem to have no standard at all?

Republicans used to believe if you didn't prosecute criminals you'd have more crime, and I think that insight was right then and it's right now. The way you correct the double standard is to take the politics out of the decision-making, and if you do that, Donald Trump should be at trial as soon as possible.

1 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

2 adviser   

n.劝告者，顾问

参考例句：

• They employed me as an adviser.他们聘请我当顾问。
• Our department has engaged a foreign teacher as phonetic adviser.我们系已经聘请了一位外籍老师作为语音顾问。

3 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

4 indictment   

n.起诉；诉状

参考例句：

• He handed up the indictment to the supreme court.他把起诉书送交最高法院。
• They issued an indictment against them.他们起诉了他们。

5 drawn   

v.拖，拉，拔出；adj.憔悴的，紧张的

参考例句：

• All the characters in the story are drawn from life.故事中的所有人物都取材于生活。
• Her gaze was drawn irresistibly to the scene outside.她的目光禁不住被外面的风景所吸引。

6 innocence   

n.无罪；天真；无害

参考例句：

• There was a touching air of innocence about the boy.这个男孩有一种令人感动的天真神情。
• The accused man proved his innocence of the crime.被告人经证实无罪。

7 lashed   

adj.具睫毛的v.鞭打( lash的过去式和过去分词 )；煽动；紧系；怒斥

参考例句：

• The rain lashed at the windows. 雨点猛烈地打在窗户上。
• The cleverly designed speech lashed the audience into a frenzy. 这篇精心设计的演说煽动听众使他们发狂。 来自《简明英汉词典》

8 memoir   

n.[pl.]回忆录，自传；记事录

参考例句：

• He has just published a memoir in honour of his captain.他刚刚出了一本传记来纪念他的队长。
• In her memoir,the actress wrote about the bittersweet memories of her first love.在那个女演员的自传中，她写到了自己苦乐掺半的初恋。

9 presidency   

n.总统(校长，总经理)的职位(任期)

参考例句：

• Roosevelt was elected four times to the presidency of the United States.罗斯福连续当选四届美国总统。
• Two candidates are emerging as contestants for the presidency.两位候选人最终成为总统职位竞争者。

10 alleging   

断言，宣称，辩解( allege的现在分词 )

参考例句：

• His reputation was blemished by a newspaper article alleging he'd evaded his taxes. 由于报上一篇文章声称他曾逃税，他的名誉受到损害。
• This our Peeress declined as unnecessary, alleging that her cousin Thornhill's recommendation would be sufficient. 那位贵人不肯，还说不必，只要有她老表唐希尔保荐就够了。

11 clearance   

n.净空；许可(证)；清算；清除，清理

参考例句：

• There was a clearance of only ten centimetres between the two walls.两堵墙之间只有十厘米的空隙。
• The ship sailed as soon as it got clearance. 那艘船一办好离港手续立刻启航了。

12 lawsuit   

n.诉讼，控诉

参考例句：

• They threatened him with a lawsuit.他们以诉讼威逼他。
• He was perpetually involving himself in this long lawsuit.他使自己无休止地卷入这场长时间的诉讼。

13 prosecutors   

检举人( prosecutor的名词复数 )； 告发人； 起诉人； 公诉人

参考例句：

• In some places,public prosecutors are elected rather than appointed. 在有些地方，检察官是经选举而非任命产生的。 来自口语例句
• You've been summoned to the Prosecutors' Office, 2 days later. 你在两天以后被宣到了检察官的办公室。

14 investigation   

n.调查，调查研究

参考例句：

• In an investigation,a new fact became known, which told against him.在调查中新发现了一件对他不利的事实。
• He drew the conclusion by building on his own investigation.他根据自己的调查研究作出结论。

15 deviate   

v.(from)背离，偏离

参考例句：

• Don't deviate from major issues.不要偏离主要问题。
• I will never deviate from what I believe to be right.我绝不背离我自信正确的道路。

16 obstruction   

n.阻塞，堵塞；障碍物

参考例句：

• She was charged with obstruction of a police officer in the execution of his duty.她被指控妨碍警察执行任务。
• The road was cleared from obstruction.那条路已被清除了障碍。

17 subpoena   

n.（法律）传票；v.传讯

参考例句：

• He was brought up to court with a subpoena.他接到传讯，来到法庭上。
• Select committees have the power to subpoena witnesses.特别委员会有权传唤证人。

18 disdain   

n.鄙视，轻视；v.轻视，鄙视，不屑

参考例句：

• Some people disdain labour.有些人轻视劳动。
• A great man should disdain flatterers.伟大的人物应鄙视献媚者。

19 constraints   

强制( constraint的名词复数 )； 限制； 约束

参考例句：

• Data and constraints can easily be changed to test theories. 信息库中的数据和限制条件可以轻易地改变以检验假设。 来自英汉非文学 - 科学史
• What are the constraints that each of these imply for any design? 这每种产品的要求和约束对于设计意味着什么？ 来自About Face 3交互设计精髓

20 alleged   

a.被指控的，嫌疑的

参考例句：

• It was alleged that he had taken bribes while in office. 他被指称在任时收受贿赂。
• alleged irregularities in the election campaign 被指称竞选运动中的不正当行为

21 entirely   

ad.全部地，完整地；完全地，彻底地

参考例句：

• The fire was entirely caused by their neglect of duty. 那场火灾完全是由于他们失职而引起的。
• His life was entirely given up to the educational work. 他的一生统统献给了教育工作。

22 timing   

n.时间安排，时间选择

参考例句：

• The timing of the meeting is not convenient.会议的时间安排不合适。
• The timing of our statement is very opportune.我们发表声明选择的时机很恰当。

23 proceedings   

n.进程，过程，议程；诉讼(程序)；公报

参考例句：

• He was released on bail pending committal proceedings. 他交保获释正在候审。
• to initiate legal proceedings against sb 对某人提起诉讼

24 democrats   

n.民主主义者，民主人士( democrat的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• The Democrats held a pep rally on Capitol Hill yesterday. 民主党昨天在国会山召开了竞选誓师大会。
• The democrats organize a filibuster in the senate. 民主党党员组织了阻挠议事。 来自《简明英汉词典》

25 prosecute   

vt.告发；进行；vi.告发，起诉，作检察官

参考例句：

• I am trying my best to prosecute my duties.我正在尽力履行我的职责。
• Is there enough evidence to prosecute?有没有起诉的足够证据？

26 prosecuted   

a.被起诉的

参考例句：

• The editors are being prosecuted for obscenity. 编辑因刊载污秽文字而被起诉。
• The company was prosecuted for breaching the Health and Safety Act. 这家公司被控违反《卫生安全条例》。

27 injustice   

n.非正义，不公正，不公平，侵犯（别人的）权利

参考例句：

• They complained of injustice in the way they had been treated.他们抱怨受到不公平的对待。
• All his life he has been struggling against injustice.他一生都在与不公正现象作斗争。