美国国家公共电台 NPR--Justice Department laid out the case against Trump in a 40-page indictment

Justice Department laid out the case against Trump¹ in a 40-page indictment²

Transcript³

NPR's Leila Fadel speaks with Ankush Khardori, a former federal prosecutor⁴ and a contributing writer for Politico, about the strength of the DOJ's case against former President Donald Trump.

LEILA FADEL, HOST:

Let's bring in Ankush Khardori. He's a former federal prosecutor in the Justice Department and a contributing writer for Politico.

Ankush, thanks for joining us.

ANKUSH KHARDORI: Thanks for having me.

FADEL: So how strong is this case against Trump?

KHARDORI: Well, I think it's important to remember that an indictment is just a set of allegations, and the government has to establish these allegations at trial. But within the four corners of this indictment, I think what we see is a very exhaustive investigation⁵ - one that's gathered a variety of different types of evidence and fairly potent⁶ types of evidence, including audio recordings⁸, material from Trump's own lawyer, the photos from Mar-a-Lago, to say nothing of the documents themselves. And, you know, I think that this indictment, just on its face, is a very impressive document - one that I think many Americans, if they can find the time, should try to read because it is, I think, a document that is intended for consumption by the American public.

FADEL: Now, you and I have read this indictment. It's more than 40 pages. What stood out to you when you were looking through it?

KHARDORI: The crystal-clear nature of the narrative⁹. These documents are very hard to draft in a way that are sort of intelligible¹⁰. And I thought that the prosecutors¹¹ did a very good job of laying out the narrative in a way that made clear the intentionality of Trump's alleged¹² misconduct and the scope of the alleged obstruction¹³ and then again, too, the sort of variety of types of evidence including material that'll be very hard for Trump to run away from if it's admitted at trial, including, for instance, the audio recording⁷ of him showing a document to someone in his office and the material from his own lawyer, Evan Corcoran.

FADEL: Now, if he were to be found guilty of these charges, what kind of sentence might he receive?

KHARDORI: That is a very, very open question, right? So the most serious charge carries a 20-year statutory maximum. Now, that's not a very helpful way of thinking about these things. I think, you know, comparable cases involving other government officials that have gone to trial and resulted in guilty verdicts have ended up with real terms of imprisonment¹⁴ in the, you know, single- or mid-single-digit years of imprisonment. But, of course, Trump is a unique defendant¹⁵.

FADEL: Right.

KHARDORI: He's a first-time offender¹⁶. He was a former president. There are very complex legal and factual issues that I expect to be aired out during the course of this trial. And ultimately, the sentence that a judge issues is very much up to their very wide discretion¹⁷.

FADEL: As you point out, this is pretty historic, unprecedented¹⁸ - former president, running for president. What happens if he's convicted and then reelected? Does he go to prison or the Oval Office?

KHARDORI: I think that the odds¹⁹ that Trump is imprisoned²⁰ as long as he's a active presidential candidate are very, very low. The reason is, on the front end of this, there's going to be quite a path between here, where we are now, to a potential trial. It's going to be very hard to even schedule a trial when you factor in the political calendar next year and concerns about interfering²¹ with the political process.

But even if a trial and a conviction resulted during the campaign season, here, too, the judge has a lot of discretion to allow post-trial briefing. Months can go by before sentencing is even completed, and then she can leave, or - it's currently a she, the judge presiding - she can allow Trump to remain out on bail²² even while his case is pending²³ on appeal. So there's no mandatory²⁴ term of imprisonment on any of the charges, and she would be under no obligation to send him immediately to prison upon a conviction.

FADEL: So is that why - I mean, you've written in Politico that Trump's own reelection effort might be his best defense²⁵. Is that why?

KHARDORI: Yeah. It is. I mean, this is a complex case - serious charges, of course. And in the ordinary circumstance, you would expect a very, very convoluted²⁶ litigation to occur here, both pre- and post-trial. But for Trump, his easiest way out of this is to get reelected, pardon himself or direct his attorney general to shut down the case, and call it a day.

FADEL: How does this case compare to Trump's indictment in New York in the scheme to arrange hush-money payments for the adult film actress Stormy Daniels?

KHARDORI: Well, it's clearly more serious, right? I think those of us who are sort of close watchers of the New York courts, I think, assume that even if Trump were convicted in that case, it's very, very unlikely that he would actually be sentenced to any term of imprisonment.

But in addition, you know, I think that this federal indictment is much more accessible to lawyers and to the public. We understand the conduct. We understand why it would be criminalized. The way that the government has used the statutes²⁷ is not - they haven't been deployed²⁸ in an unusual or novel way. And kind of all of those things surround the Manhattan case and has, I think, contributed to the somewhat ambivalent²⁹ public reception around that document. This one is quite different to me.

FADEL: You know, one of the things we're hearing from Trump and others who are defending him is that, well, what about Hillary's emails, and what about the classified documents that Biden had? Does this indictment - does this case compare at all? Is there a comparison to be made? Is that fair?

KHARDORI: I really - yeah, I really - I don't think so at all. I mean, the scope of what was taken, the intentionality - alleged intentionality - behind it, and there is nothing comparable in either of those other fact patterns to the alleged obstruction on the part of Trump and his integral involvement in that alleged obstruction. So I don't have much patience for the comparisons, to be honest. I think they're just politically motivated talking points.

FADEL: Ankush Khardori is a former federal prosecutor and a contributing writer for Politico.

Thanks for your time.

KHARDORI: Thank you for having me.

1 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

2 indictment   

n.起诉；诉状

参考例句：

• He handed up the indictment to the supreme court.他把起诉书送交最高法院。
• They issued an indictment against them.他们起诉了他们。

3 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

4 prosecutor   

n.起诉人；检察官，公诉人

参考例句：

• The defender argued down the prosecutor at the court.辩护人在法庭上驳倒了起诉人。
• The prosecutor would tear your testimony to pieces.检查官会把你的证言驳得体无完肤。

5 investigation   

n.调查，调查研究

参考例句：

• In an investigation,a new fact became known, which told against him.在调查中新发现了一件对他不利的事实。
• He drew the conclusion by building on his own investigation.他根据自己的调查研究作出结论。

6 potent   

adj.强有力的，有权势的；有效力的

参考例句：

• The medicine had a potent effect on your disease.这药物对你的病疗效很大。
• We must account of his potent influence.我们必须考虑他的强有力的影响。

7 recording   

n.录音，记录

参考例句：

• How long will the recording of the song take?录下这首歌得花多少时间？
• I want to play you a recording of the rehearsal.我想给你放一下彩排的录像。

8 recordings   

n.记录( recording的名词复数 )；录音；录像；唱片

参考例句：

• a boxed set of original recordings 一套盒装原声录音带
• old jazz recordings reissued on CD 以激光唱片重新发行的老爵士乐

9 narrative   

n.叙述，故事；adj.叙事的，故事体的

参考例句：

• He was a writer of great narrative power.他是一位颇有记述能力的作家。
• Neither author was very strong on narrative.两个作者都不是很善于讲故事。

10 intelligible   

adj.可理解的，明白易懂的，清楚的

参考例句：

• This report would be intelligible only to an expert in computing.只有计算机运算专家才能看懂这份报告。
• His argument was barely intelligible.他的论点不易理解。

11 prosecutors   

检举人( prosecutor的名词复数 )； 告发人； 起诉人； 公诉人

参考例句：

• In some places,public prosecutors are elected rather than appointed. 在有些地方，检察官是经选举而非任命产生的。 来自口语例句
• You've been summoned to the Prosecutors' Office, 2 days later. 你在两天以后被宣到了检察官的办公室。

12 alleged   

a.被指控的，嫌疑的

参考例句：

• It was alleged that he had taken bribes while in office. 他被指称在任时收受贿赂。
• alleged irregularities in the election campaign 被指称竞选运动中的不正当行为

13 obstruction   

n.阻塞，堵塞；障碍物

参考例句：

• She was charged with obstruction of a police officer in the execution of his duty.她被指控妨碍警察执行任务。
• The road was cleared from obstruction.那条路已被清除了障碍。

14 imprisonment   

n.关押，监禁，坐牢

参考例句：

• His sentence was commuted from death to life imprisonment.他的判决由死刑减为无期徒刑。
• He was sentenced to one year's imprisonment for committing bigamy.他因为犯重婚罪被判入狱一年。

15 defendant   

n.被告；adj.处于被告地位的

参考例句：

• The judge rejected a bribe from the defendant's family.法官拒收被告家属的贿赂。
• The defendant was borne down by the weight of evidence.有力的证据使被告认输了。

16 offender   

n.冒犯者，违反者，犯罪者

参考例句：

• They all sued out a pardon for an offender.他们请求法院赦免一名罪犯。
• The authorities often know that sex offenders will attack again when they are released.当局一般都知道性犯罪者在获释后往往会再次犯案。

17 discretion   

n.谨慎；随意处理

参考例句：

• You must show discretion in choosing your friend.你择友时必须慎重。
• Please use your best discretion to handle the matter.请慎重处理此事。

18 unprecedented   

adj.无前例的，新奇的

参考例句：

• The air crash caused an unprecedented number of deaths.这次空难的死亡人数是空前的。
• A flood of this sort is really unprecedented.这样大的洪水真是十年九不遇。

19 odds   

n.让步，机率，可能性，比率；胜败优劣之别

参考例句：

• The odds are 5 to 1 that she will win.她获胜的机会是五比一。
• Do you know the odds of winning the lottery once?你知道赢得一次彩票的几率多大吗？

20 imprisoned   

下狱，监禁( imprison的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• He was imprisoned for two concurrent terms of 30 months and 18 months. 他被判处30个月和18个月的监禁，合并执行。
• They were imprisoned for possession of drugs. 他们因拥有毒品而被监禁。

21 interfering   

adj. 妨碍的 动词interfere的现在分词

参考例句：

• He's an interfering old busybody! 他老爱管闲事！
• I wish my mother would stop interfering and let me make my own decisions. 我希望我母亲不再干预，让我自己拿主意。

22 bail   

v.舀（水），保释；n.保证金，保释，保释人

参考例句：

• One of the prisoner's friends offered to bail him out.犯人的一个朋友答应保释他出来。
• She has been granted conditional bail.她被准予有条件保释。

23 pending   

prep.直到，等待…期间；adj.待定的；迫近的

参考例句：

• The lawsuit is still pending in the state court.这案子仍在州法庭等待定夺。
• He knew my examination was pending.他知道我就要考试了。

24 mandatory   

adj.命令的；强制的；义务的；n.受托者

参考例句：

• It's mandatory to pay taxes.缴税是义务性的。
• There is no mandatory paid annual leave in the U.S.美国没有强制带薪年假。

25 defense   

n.防御，保卫；[pl.]防务工事；辩护，答辩

参考例句：

• The accused has the right to defense.被告人有权获得辩护。
• The war has impacted the area with military and defense workers.战争使那个地区挤满了军队和防御工程人员。

26 convoluted   

adj.旋绕的；复杂的

参考例句：

• The snake slithered through a convoluted path.蛇在羊肠小道上爬行。
• The policy is so convoluted even college presidents are confused.这项政策太令人费解，甚至连大学校长们也是一头雾水。

27 statutes   

成文法( statute的名词复数 )； 法令； 法规； 章程

参考例句：

• The numerous existing statutes are complicated and poorly coordinated. 目前繁多的法令既十分复杂又缺乏快调。 来自英汉非文学 - 环境法 - 环境法
• Each agency is also restricted by the particular statutes governing its activities. 各个机构的行为也受具体法令限制。 来自英汉非文学 - 环境法 - 环境法

28 deployed   

（尤指军事行动）使展开( deploy的过去式和过去分词 )； 施展； 部署； 有效地利用

参考例句：

• Tanks have been deployed all along the front line. 沿整个前线已部署了坦克。
• The artillery was deployed to bear on the fort. 火炮是对着那个碉堡部署的。

29 ambivalent   

adj.含糊不定的；(态度等)矛盾的

参考例句：

• She remained ambivalent about her marriage.她对于自己的婚事仍然拿不定主意。
• Although she professed fear of the Russians,she seemed to have ambivalent feelings toward Philby himself.虽然她承认害怕俄国人，然而她似乎对菲尔比本人有一种矛盾的感情。