美国国家公共电台 NPR Atlantic Editor On Acrimony In U.S.: 'I Have To Imagine That It Actually Gets Worse'

Atlantic Editor On Acrimony In U.S.: 'I Have To Imagine That It Actually Gets Worse'

play pause stop mute unmute max volume 00:0007:02repeat repeat off Update Required To play the media you will need to either update your browser¹ to a recent version or update your Flash plugin. STEVE INSKEEP, HOST: 

The new editor of The Atlantic has a long career as a reporter. Jeffrey Goldberg has reported from Israel, Pakistan and Iran. He has spent hours interviewing President Obama. And this year, he was involved in a decision. Goldberg pressed for his magazine to endorse² Hillary Clinton for president. He said it was right, even though it's only the third time in its history that The Atlantic has endorsed³ a presidential candidate.

JEFFREY GOLDBERG: The Atlantic was founded by abolitionists, in 1857, to bring about an end of slavery. It was not merely a non-racist⁴ magazine. It was an anti-racist magazine. It was about advancing the progressive American idea. It was about preserving the unity⁵ of the Union. And so if you look at some of the things that Donald Trump⁶ has said and done over the past year, these fly in the face of some core principles of the founders⁷ of The Atlantic.

INSKEEP: Jeffrey Goldberg's job is to push that venerable publication into an uncertain future. He came by our studios to talk at a strange moment for the media and for the country. Many newspapers and magazines have called Donald Trump a threat to the republic. Trump has made the media his target, though he also has a media executive as his campaign CEO. All of this poses a challenge for the magazine and widely read website that Jeffrey Goldberg will lead. He wants The Atlantic to appeal to a wide audience at a moment when Americans are exceedingly divided.

GOLDBERG: We're entering a period in which a profound number of Americans are alienated⁸ from a profound number of other Americans. And that is unhealthy. And that disturbs me.

INSKEEP: You just said entering a period, not ending a period. The election is about to happen - doesn't sound like you think this problem is going to end with the election.

GOLDBERG: I can't imagine that millions of Trump voters - having watched him lose and possibly having him come out and say the election was rigged - I can't imagine that all of these millions of disaffected⁹, angry people are going to say, oh, well, Hillary Clinton won. I guess I got to get behind her. I wish that. And that's a nonpartisan wish. I can't imagine that this goes away. I have to imagine - and I don't mean to sound overly pessimistic. But I have to imagine that it actually gets worse.

INSKEEP: Is it possible that this experience has been good for everybody because problems and divisions have been exposed, and we can talk about them?

GOLDBERG: It's good in the sense that people are allowed to express themselves and express their frustrations¹⁰ and anxieties. And, obviously, much of the mainstream¹¹ failed to understand, A, what people were feeling, and, B, failed to come up with solutions that might allay¹² some of these anxieties. On the other hand, the thing that I worry about the most is that we've had an election season and election rhetoric¹³ that's untethered from observable reality.

So you have a candidate now who says, I didn't say X, when there's tape of him saying X. And that doesn't seem to affect his supporters. In the old model, when you catch a candidate making an obvious lie, that usually hurts the candidate - even among that candidate's base. And so we've moved into a new phase of the way in which truth is understood in part of the American polity, and that's troubling.

INSKEEP: So you were named Atlantic editor the other day. And I sent out a tweet about Jeffrey Goldberg being the editor of The Atlantic. And I got a bunch of tweets back - anti-Semitic. And they're, like, elaborate, with artwork and not just one or two...

GOLDBERG: Well, at least they're trying hard.

INSKEEP: ...Like a bunch. And then a few days later, the Anti-Defamation League puts out this list of journalists who've been targeted with thousands and thousands of anti-Semitic tweets. And you were in the top 10.

GOLDBERG: Right.

INSKEEP: What's that been like?

GOLDBERG: Well, I am glad that Nazis¹⁵ hate me. I consider that a compliment.

INSKEEP: And Nazi¹⁴ is the right word for the people who...

GOLDBERG: These are neo-Nazis. These are neo-Nazis on Twitter. And I'm inured¹⁶ to it, in a kind of way, because I wake up in the morning, and I open up Twitter. And some days, I'll have a hundred messages - all with basically the same theme, which is that I should be gassed or - and that my family should be put in the ovens.

I'm inured to it. But I also think this is a challenge for Twitter, in a way. I don't want to be on Twitter as much because I find it a little bit dispiriting to start my day with that kind of discourse¹⁷. It doesn't scare me, but it just is dispiriting.

INSKEEP: Was this happening to you two years ago or five years ago?

GOLDBERG: No, most of these are Trump supporters. I will say that very bluntly. And it's easy to tell because their avatars are advertising¹⁸ themselves as Trump supporters. And so I link this phenomenon to the rise of Trump-ism. And I wish that the Trump campaign would make a definitive¹⁹ statement against this kind of neo-Nazi horror. But so far, I have not had satisfaction on that front.

INSKEEP: I'm just thinking Trump can defend himself, and has, by saying he's the least racist person who's ever lived. His supporters can point out, correctly, he has a son-in-law who's Jewish.

GOLDBERG: Right.

INSKEEP: At the same time, he gave a speech the other day where he started talking about a conspiracy²⁰ of international bankers. And he didn't say Jewish bankers...

GOLDBERG: That's a dog whistle.

INSKEEP: ...But you say certain things, and people hear them a certain way. Do you think he's a racist?

GOLDBERG: At the very least, he traffics in racial invective²¹ knowingly. To me, that's a threshold question. If you do that, and if you know what you're doing, then, yes, you're a racist. I think he's a racist. I go back to the incident with the judge...

INSKEEP: Judge Curiel.

GOLDBERG: Judge Curiel. The way Donald Trump spoke²² in that period was, to me, un-American and racist.

INSKEEP: This guy's a Mexican, as Trump labeled him, and, therefore, can't be here.

GOLDBERG: Yeah, this is the challenge in media, right? The challenge in media is, how do you call a thing by a name when that thing is, A, in the mainstream now but also an egregious²³ thing? And I think we've had trouble catching²⁴ up to the new reality. I think now people are having an easier time calling out lies as lies when they're issued. But I know that a lot of my colleagues have a problem using the term racist. And so we say, traffics in racial invective or, divides rather than unites and all sorts of euphemism²⁵. But I have to say that when you look at...

INSKEEP: Can you just say what he did and said without labeling it? Is that a way to get out of that?

GOLDBERG: I suppose it is. But there's something about clarity and directness that's useful in journalism²⁶.

INSKEEP: And it's a time when you need to say racist if it's racist, in your view.

GOLDBERG: Well, I think, personally, that people will be judged in coming years by how they reacted to these very novel and disturbing events of the past several months. And one of the reasons - I think one of the many reasons we wanted to endorse Hillary Clinton over Donald Trump - only the third time in our history of doing that - is we wanted to get on the right side.

We wanted to say, look, we did what we could. We're a magazine. We did what we could. We wrote about this in a direct way. And I'm proud of that. And I would rather not have regrets later on that I didn't say what I was thinking because it's impolite.

INSKEEP: Jeffrey Goldberg is the new editor of The Atlantic. Thanks for coming by.

GOLDBERG: Thank you.

1 browser   

n.浏览者

参考例句：

• View edits in a web browser.在浏览器中看编辑的效果。
• I think my browser has a list of shareware links.我想在浏览器中会有一系列的共享软件链接。

2 endorse   

vt.(支票、汇票等)背书，背署；批注；同意

参考例句：

• No one is foolish enough to endorse it.没有哪个人会傻得赞成它。
• I fully endorse your opinions on this subject.我完全拥护你对此课题的主张。

3 endorsed   

vt.& vi.endorse的过去式或过去分词形式v.赞同( endorse的过去式和过去分词 )；在（尤指支票的）背面签字；在（文件的）背面写评论；在广告上说本人使用并赞同某产品

参考例句：

• The committee endorsed an initiative by the chairman to enter discussion about a possible merger. 委员会通过了主席提出的新方案，开始就可能进行的并购进行讨论。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• The government has broadly endorsed a research paper proposing new educational targets for 14-year-olds. 政府基本上支持建议对14 岁少年实行新教育目标的研究报告。 来自《简明英汉词典》

4 racist   

n.种族主义者，种族主义分子

参考例句：

• a series of racist attacks 一连串的种族袭击行为
• His speech presented racist ideas under the guise of nationalism. 他的讲话以民族主义为幌子宣扬种族主义思想。

5 unity   

n.团结，联合，统一；和睦，协调

参考例句：

• When we speak of unity,we do not mean unprincipled peace.所谓团结，并非一团和气。
• We must strengthen our unity in the face of powerful enemies.大敌当前，我们必须加强团结。

6 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

7 founders   

n.创始人( founder的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• He was one of the founders of the university's medical faculty. 他是该大学医学院的创建人之一。 来自辞典例句
• The founders of our religion made this a cornerstone of morality. 我们宗教的创始人把这看作是道德的基石。 来自辞典例句

8 alienated   

adj.感到孤独的，不合群的v.使疏远( alienate的过去式和过去分词 )；使不友好；转让；让渡（财产等）

参考例句：

• His comments have alienated a lot of young voters. 他的言论使许多年轻选民离他而去。
• The Prime Minister's policy alienated many of her followers. 首相的政策使很多拥护她的人疏远了她。 来自《简明英汉词典》

9 disaffected   

adj.（政治上）不满的，叛离的

参考例句：

• He attracts disaffected voters.他吸引了心怀不满的选民们。
• Environmental issues provided a rallying point for people disaffected with the government.环境问题把对政府不满的人们凝聚了起来。

10 frustrations   

挫折( frustration的名词复数 )； 失败； 挫败； 失意

参考例句：

• The temptation would grow to take out our frustrations on Saigon. 由于我们遭到挫折而要同西贡算帐的引诱力会增加。
• Aspirations will be raised, but so will frustrations. 人们会产生种种憧憬，但是种种挫折也会随之而来。

11 mainstream   

n.（思想或行为的）主流；adj.主流的

参考例句：

• Their views lie outside the mainstream of current medical opinion.他们的观点不属于当今医学界观点的主流。
• Polls are still largely reflects the mainstream sentiment.民调还在很大程度上反映了社会主流情绪。

12 allay   

v.消除，减轻(恐惧、怀疑等)

参考例句：

• The police tried to allay her fears but failed.警察力图减轻她的恐惧，但是没有收到什么效果。
• They are trying to allay public fears about the spread of the disease.他们正竭力减轻公众对这种疾病传播的恐惧。

13 rhetoric   

n.修辞学，浮夸之言语

参考例句：

• Do you know something about rhetoric?你懂点修辞学吗？
• Behind all the rhetoric,his relations with the army are dangerously poised.在冠冕堂皇的言辞背后，他和军队的关系岌岌可危。

14 Nazi   

n.纳粹分子，adj.纳粹党的，纳粹的

参考例句：

• They declare the Nazi regime overthrown and sue for peace.他们宣布纳粹政权已被推翻，并出面求和。
• Nazi closes those war criminals inside their concentration camp.纳粹把那些战犯关在他们的集中营里。

15 Nazis   

n.（德国的）纳粹党员( Nazi的名词复数 )；纳粹主义

参考例句：

• The Nazis worked them over with gun butts. 纳粹分子用枪托毒打他们。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• The Nazis were responsible for the mass murder of Jews during World War Ⅱ. 纳粹必须为第二次世界大战中对犹太人的大屠杀负责。 来自《简明英汉词典》

16 inured   

adj.坚强的，习惯的

参考例句：

• The prisoners quickly became inured to the harsh conditions.囚犯们很快就适应了苛刻的条件。
• He has inured himself to accept misfortune.他锻练了自己，使自己能承受不幸。

17 discourse   

n.论文，演说；谈话；话语；vi.讲述，著述

参考例句：

• We'll discourse on the subject tonight.我们今晚要谈论这个问题。
• He fell into discourse with the customers who were drinking at the counter.他和站在柜台旁的酒客谈了起来。

18 advertising   

n.广告业；广告活动 a.广告的；广告业务的

参考例句：

• Can you give me any advice on getting into advertising? 你能指点我如何涉足广告业吗?
• The advertising campaign is aimed primarily at young people. 这个广告宣传运动主要是针对年轻人的。

19 definitive   

adj.确切的，权威性的；最后的，决定性的

参考例句：

• This book is the definitive guide to world cuisine.这本书是世界美食的权威指南。
• No one has come up with a definitive answer as to why this should be so.至于为什么该这样，还没有人给出明确的答复。

20 conspiracy   

n.阴谋，密谋，共谋

参考例句：

• The men were found guilty of conspiracy to murder.这些人被裁决犯有阴谋杀人罪。
• He claimed that it was all a conspiracy against him.他声称这一切都是一场针对他的阴谋。

21 invective   

n.痛骂，恶意抨击

参考例句：

• He retorted the invective on her.他用恶言讽刺还击她。
• His command of irony and invective was said to be very classic and lethal.据说他嬉笑怒骂的本领是极其杰出的，令人无法招架的。

22 spoke   

n.（车轮的）辐条；轮辐；破坏某人的计划；阻挠某人的行动 v.讲，谈（speak的过去式）；说；演说；从某种观点来说

参考例句：

• They sourced the spoke nuts from our company.他们的轮辐螺帽是从我们公司获得的。
• The spokes of a wheel are the bars that connect the outer ring to the centre.辐条是轮子上连接外圈与中心的条棒。

23 egregious   

adj.非常的，过分的

参考例句：

• When it comes to blatant lies,there are none more egregious than budget figures.谈到公众谎言，没有比预算数字更令人震惊的。
• What an egregious example was here!现摆着一个多么触目惊心的例子啊。

24 catching   

adj.易传染的，有魅力的，迷人的，接住

参考例句：

• There are those who think eczema is catching.有人就是认为湿疹会传染。
• Enthusiasm is very catching.热情非常富有感染力。

25 euphemism   

n.婉言，委婉的说法

参考例句：

• Language reflects culture and euphemism is a mirror of culture.语言反映文化,而婉语则是各种文化的一面镜子。
• Euphemism is a very common and complicated linguistic phenomenon.委婉语是一种十分常见而又非常复杂的语言现象。

26 journalism   

n.新闻工作，报业

参考例句：

• He's a teacher but he does some journalism on the side.他是教师，可还兼职做一些新闻工作。
• He had an aptitude for journalism.他有从事新闻工作的才能。