美国国家公共电台 NPR James Comey Says FBI 'Would Be Worse Today' If Not For His Actions

 

STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:

We've been questioning former FBI Director James Comey. He walked into our studios here last night. Hard to miss him in the lobby, the guy who's 6-foot-8. He wore a jacket but no tie. Comey writes in a new book that as FBI director, he encouraged less formal dress, saying it puts people at ease to talk frankly¹. We had a frank talk about the decisions he made as FBI director.

So you've made it clear that one of your goals was to protect the integrity of the FBI and the Justice Department. Did you?

JAMES COMEY: I think so. I...

INSKEEP: You think - do you think the FBI is...

COMEY: I think better than the alternative, yes.

INSKEEP: Do you think the FBI's credibility is better or worse than it was a couple of years ago?

COMEY: It's worse.

INSKEEP: But, he says, not as bad as it would've been had he chosen differently in 2016. Comey's book, "A Higher Loyalty²," recounts the investigation³ of Hillary Clinton's use of a private email server. In two different episodes, Comey made public statements about the investigation at times when the FBI would typically have stayed silent. To review those decisions, we sat with Comey and an NPR colleague who's known him for years, NPR justice correspondent Carrie Johnson.

CARRIE JOHNSON, BYLINE⁴: There are people whom you respect who have leveled criticism, people like Jamie Gorelick - a Democrat⁵, Justice Department veteran - Larry Thompson - a Republican Justice Department veteran - who after your decision to give that news conference in July 2016 wrote that you were damaging the democracy, that the department is an institution, not a person. How do you respond to that? That - those feelings have not gone away. In fact, they may have hardened since then.

COMEY: Yeah. And so I try to listen to it because I could be wrong. It's a balance, right? You don't want to listen to all criticism or you'll be overwhelmed, and you'll be crushed like a grape. But you want to listen to people that you know to be thoughtful and experienced. And so I've tried to listen to it. I think if they look at it in an open-minded way, they may come away with a different view.

INSKEEP: One of Comey's decisions came in July 2016. He concluded there was not enough evidence to charge the Democratic candidate with mishandling classified information, but he still held a press conference and called her extremely careless. He spoke⁶ without consulting his boss, President Obama's attorney general, and he said one question was on his mind.

COMEY: How are you able to maintain public confidence that you're not a partisan⁷, it's not the Obama Justice Department trying to give a break to Hillary Clinton?

INSKEEP: So here's the thing that's on my mind, Director. The - you were hoping to demonstrate that the FBI was above political influence. Did you, in your course of action, actually allow yourself to be politically influenced? Because you write that you were concerned about criticism - essentially⁸, conspiracy⁹ theorizing about the FBI. Were you actually being influenced by cable TV pundits¹⁰ in what you decided¹¹ to do?

COMEY: Yeah, that's a reasonable question, Steve. I don't think so, and here's why I say that. Even if cable TV punditry¹² had never been born and there were no such thing, there would be intense public interest in a criminal investigation of one of the two candidates for president of the United States.

INSKEEP: But this is a thing that is on my mind based on what you write. You write that you thought it was ridiculous - that's your word - that Bill Clinton would walk across an airplane tarmac to say hi to Loretta Lynch in order to influence the investigation in some way, but that you changed your view after cable TV pundits made a big deal out of it and that that was part of your thinking. Would it perhaps have been a better course of action to resist all that shouting out there and do something closer to what you would normally do?

COMEY: Look, I meant what I said earlier. A reasonable person might have done that. I think that would've been a mistake.

INSKEEP: As he talked with me and our colleague Carrie Johnson, James Comey made it clear that his overriding¹³ concern was protecting his institution.

JOHNSON: With respect, sir, was that your job? Was it your job to worry about those things?

COMEY: Oh, I think so. As the director of the FBI, I think my job is to worry about how the - despite what your mother told you about not caring what other people think, as the director of the FBI, the public trust is all you have in that institution. And so, yes, worrying about that had to be part of the job.

INSKEEP: What is the difference between the Clinton email revelations in October just before the election, which you talked about, and the Trump¹⁴ and Russia investigation of the same period, which you chose not to talk about in any way before the election?

COMEY: The answer is complicated, but I'll try and be as tight as I can about it. The policy with respect to investigations¹⁵ is, we don't comment about pending¹⁶ investigations. We don't even confirm their existence unless there is an overriding public interest and there will not be jeopardy¹⁷ to our investigation from abiding¹⁸ that public interest in making a comment. Hillary - and so I think, actually, the Russia counterintelligence investigations and the Clinton investigation illustrate¹⁹ the rule, believe it or not.

INSKEEP: So here's what Comey says the difference is. The public knew of the email investigation from 2015 onward²⁰, which forced Comey to say the result. Having commented once, he says he had to comment again in October right before the election. That's when the FBI found a computer linked to an ex-congressman that might or might not have contained missing emails. By contrast, Comey says, the Russia probe was murkier²¹.

COMEY: We didn't know what we had. When people say, you should've said more about the counterintelligence investigations, what exactly would we say? You're going interrupt, Steve, aren't you?

INSKEEP: I'm about to interrupt that. When it came to Hillary Clinton's email, the discovery of more emails possibly in Anthony Weiner's computer, which led to the public statement there, you also didn't know what you had.

COMEY: Correct. I didn't know what I had, except I did know this from the investigative team. It's October the 28th. We're standing²² there about to get a search warrant, which the Justice Department agreed we'd need to get, for hundreds of thousands of emails, including emails that may change the case. You have told the American people you're done in the summer of 2016. That is not true anymore. And so what are your options? Our tradition - we take no action if we can avoid it in the runup to an election that might have an impact. So where's the door labeled no action? As I saw it, there were two doors, and they were both actions. Do I speak about this or do I conceal²³ it? If I speak about it, it'll be really bad. It could have an impact on the election. That's a terrible thing. What's that other option? Conceal it - in my view, would be catastrophic.

INSKEEP: Former FBI Director James Comey, who says he hopes his actions were not responsible for electing Donald Trump. And his new book is called "A Higher Loyalty."

1 frankly   

adv.坦白地，直率地；坦率地说

参考例句：

• To speak frankly, I don't like the idea at all.老实说，我一点也不赞成这个主意。
• Frankly speaking, I'm not opposed to reform.坦率地说，我不反对改革。

2 loyalty   

n.忠诚，忠心

参考例句：

• She told him the truth from a sense of loyalty.她告诉他真相是出于忠诚。
• His loyalty to his friends was never in doubt.他对朋友的一片忠心从来没受到怀疑。

3 investigation   

n.调查，调查研究

参考例句：

• In an investigation,a new fact became known, which told against him.在调查中新发现了一件对他不利的事实。
• He drew the conclusion by building on his own investigation.他根据自己的调查研究作出结论。

4 byline   

n.署名；v.署名

参考例句：

• His byline was absent as well.他的署名也不见了。
• We wish to thank the author of this article which carries no byline.我们要感谢这篇文章的那位没有署名的作者。

5 democrat   

n.民主主义者，民主人士；民主党党员

参考例句：

• The Democrat and the Public criticized each other.民主党人和共和党人互相攻击。
• About two years later,he was defeated by Democrat Jimmy Carter.大约两年后，他被民主党人杰米卡特击败。

6 spoke   

n.（车轮的）辐条；轮辐；破坏某人的计划；阻挠某人的行动 v.讲，谈（speak的过去式）；说；演说；从某种观点来说

参考例句：

• They sourced the spoke nuts from our company.他们的轮辐螺帽是从我们公司获得的。
• The spokes of a wheel are the bars that connect the outer ring to the centre.辐条是轮子上连接外圈与中心的条棒。

7 partisan   

adj.党派性的；游击队的；n.游击队员；党徒

参考例句：

• In their anger they forget all the partisan quarrels.愤怒之中，他们忘掉一切党派之争。
• The numerous newly created partisan detachments began working slowly towards that region.许多新建的游击队都开始慢慢地向那里移动。

8 essentially   

adv.本质上，实质上，基本上

参考例句：

• Really great men are essentially modest.真正的伟人大都很谦虚。
• She is an essentially selfish person.她本质上是个自私自利的人。

9 conspiracy   

n.阴谋，密谋，共谋

参考例句：

• The men were found guilty of conspiracy to murder.这些人被裁决犯有阴谋杀人罪。
• He claimed that it was all a conspiracy against him.他声称这一切都是一场针对他的阴谋。

10 pundits   

n.某一学科的权威，专家( pundit的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• The pundits disagree on the best way of dealing with the problem. 如何妥善处理这一问题，专家众说纷纭。 来自辞典例句
• That did not stop Chinese pundits from making a fuss over it. 这并没有阻止中国的博学之士对此大惊小怪。 来自互联网

11 decided   

adj.决定了的，坚决的；明显的，明确的

参考例句：

• This gave them a decided advantage over their opponents.这使他们比对手具有明显的优势。
• There is a decided difference between British and Chinese way of greeting.英国人和中国人打招呼的方式有很明显的区别。

12 punditry   

n.专家（或权威等）的学问（或方法、见解）

参考例句：

13 overriding   

a.最主要的

参考例句：

• Development is of overriding importance. 发展是硬道理
• My overriding concern is to raise the standards of state education. 我最关心的是提高国民教育水平。

14 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

15 investigations   

（正式的）调查( investigation的名词复数 )； 侦查； 科学研究； 学术研究

参考例句：

• His investigations were intensive and thorough but revealed nothing. 他进行了深入彻底的调查，但没有发现什么。
• He often sent them out to make investigations. 他常常派他们出去作调查。

16 pending   

prep.直到，等待…期间；adj.待定的；迫近的

参考例句：

• The lawsuit is still pending in the state court.这案子仍在州法庭等待定夺。
• He knew my examination was pending.他知道我就要考试了。

17 jeopardy   

n.危险；危难

参考例句：

• His foolish behaviour may put his whole future in jeopardy.他愚蠢的行为可能毁了他一生的前程。
• It is precisely at this juncture that the boss finds himself in double jeopardy.恰恰在这个关键时刻，上司发现自己处于进退两难的境地。

18 abiding   

adj.永久的，持久的，不变的

参考例句：

• He had an abiding love of the English countryside.他永远热爱英国的乡村。
• He has a genuine and abiding love of the craft.他对这门手艺有着真挚持久的热爱。

19 illustrate   

v.举例说明，阐明；图解，加插图

参考例句：

• The company's bank statements illustrate its success.这家公司的银行报表说明了它的成功。
• This diagram will illustrate what I mean.这个图表可说明我的意思。

20 onward   

adj.向前的，前进的；adv.向前，前进，在先

参考例句：

• The Yellow River surges onward like ten thousand horses galloping.黄河以万马奔腾之势滚滚向前。
• He followed in the steps of forerunners and marched onward.他跟随着先辈的足迹前进。

21 murkier   

adj.阴暗的( murky的比较级 )；昏暗的；（指水）脏的；混浊的

参考例句：

• If not, the outcome may be a lot murkier. 而如不然，结果可能就会更加含糊不清。 来自互联网
• This leads us into the murkier areas of human behaviour. 这让我们看到了人类行为较阴暗的领域。 来自互联网

22 standing   

n.持续，地位；adj.永久的，不动的，直立的，不流动的

参考例句：

• After the earthquake only a few houses were left standing.地震过后只有几幢房屋还立着。
• They're standing out against any change in the law.他们坚决反对对法律做任何修改。

23 conceal   

v.隐藏，隐瞒，隐蔽

参考例句：

• He had to conceal his identity to escape the police.为了躲避警方，他只好隐瞒身份。
• He could hardly conceal his joy at his departure.他几乎掩饰不住临行时的喜悦。