美国国家公共电台 NPR U.S.-Funded Radio Free Europe In Hungary Would Be An 'Insult,' Says Foreign Minister

 

NOEL KING, HOST:

This week and last, world leaders met at the U.N. General Assembly in New York. A notable absence was the Hungarian prime minister, Viktor Orban. Hungary is arguably very relevant to the United States. The Trump¹ administration's harsh policies against Central American migrants mirror Hungary's equally harsh policies against largely Muslim migrants from Syria and Iraq. Orban's Fidesz Party has captured the country's judicial² system and eviscerated³ its free press. Many people say Hungary can no longer be considered a democracy. Worth noting - President Trump welcomed Viktor Orban to the White House earlier this year.

Recently, I talked to Hungary's foreign minister, Peter Szijjarto, when he was in New York for the U.N. General Assembly. Joanna Kakissis has done extensive reporting on Hungary, and she's here to help walk us through this interview. Hi, Joanna.

JOANNA KAKISSIS, BYLINE⁴: Hey, Noel.

KING: So I started by asking Foreign Minister Szijjarto about a proposal by the Agency for Global Media to restart Radio Free Europe in Hungary.

This is a U.S. news service that broadcasts in countries where there's no free flow of information, often because governments have banned it. It closed down in Hungary in the early 1990s at the end of the Soviet⁵ era. The implication then was Hungary is moving toward a free state. And I should note that the U.S. Congress has not approved this yet, but this agency is effectively saying that Hungary does not have a free media in 2019, which means, by our standards, it's not a free country. What do you make of that?

PETER SZIJJARTO: Well, you know, it's an insult on our country. It's fake news about Hungary. There is absolutely a media freedom in Hungary. You cannot name one sector⁶ of media, be it Internet, be it radio, be television, that the market leader would be pro-government.

KING: Earlier this year in May, our reporter, Joanna Kakissis, was in Hungary. She reported a story on press freedom, that the Orban government and its allies have systematically⁷ taken control of about 90% of media outlets⁹ there.

SZIJJARTO: But it's not true.

KING: So Joanna was lying.

SZIJJARTO: It's not - yeah, yeah. Yeah, she was because it's not true.

KING: OK. Joanna, I do not think you're a liar¹⁰, but I think that this exchange helps make the point that, you know, when Hungarian officials are confronted with facts about their government, they tend to call people liars¹¹. They say it's fake news. You went to Hungary.

KAKISSIS: That's correct.

KING: You reported a story on the media there. What did you find?

KAKISSIS: Well, what I found is when there is a news outlet⁸ that's independent, what happens is that some organization close to Viktor Orban and his Fidesz Party will take it over and will fire the journalists and hire journalists who are loyal to them.

KING: There is a really fascinating dynamic in Hungary, which is that the country has made clear it does not want migrants coming and staying and working there. At the same time, it's also facing shortages of labor¹² in many parts of the country. People are migrating out, and it's become a problem for Hungary's economy, so much so that the country has instituted a policy reportedly starting in 2020 where women who have at least four children will never have to pay income tax again.

SZIJJARTO: We want to support our own families instead of supporting migrants. You have not seen those 400,000 illegal migrants who marched through the country back in 2015. Thank you very much. We don't want them to stay in Hungary. We don't need...

KING: But they didn't want to stay either, and that was very well documented.

SZIJJARTO: Yeah, but now, you know, the European Union would like to apply obligatory¹³ resettlement quotas¹⁴ in the framework of which they want a couple thousand to be received in Hungary of those ones. But thank you very much. We don't want that, and we reject that, and we will never receive any kind of illegal migrants - any illegal migrants in Hungary until we are in office. So we are very proud...

KING: Let me make the economic argument...

SZIJJARTO: Sorry, we are very - we are really proud on our family policy. We are really proud that we support our families.

KING: And yet it will be 18 years before any of those children that you want to be born are able to go into the workforce¹⁵. Many other countries have identified migrants as a solution to a problem.

SZIJJARTO: OK. I don't agree. I don't agree that migration¹⁶ would be the solution here. I simply don't agree. Because if you look at the western European countries, migration was not the solution. Migration created, as you call, parallel societies. They have not found any kind of answer to their labor market challenges. And I'm pretty sure that we are not going to find any kind or we would not find any kind of solutions.

KING: So, Joanna, obviously Hungary believes migrants are not good for Hungary.

KAKISSIS: In terms of the family policy, as you pointed¹⁷ out, the family policy is not going to produce Hungarian workers anytime soon. And it's been very hard for Hungary to lure¹⁸ Hungarians back to Hungary to work there. In terms of what's happening in the rest of Europe, yes, there are places like France where the integration¹⁹ policies have not been great. And so people have been kept out of the economy and working on the fringes of it. But in places like Germany, which took in hundreds of thousands of refugees just in 2015, they found jobs. I mean, a good percentage of them are working now or are in school. And they've learned the language, and it's working. You know, it's working one village, one town, one city, one city block at a time.

KING: You know, I asked Peter Szijjarto what Hungary's end game is here in Europe.

Many analysts²⁰ look at Hungary as sort of a leader in being unwelcoming to migrants, calling them invaders²¹, cracking down on the press, rejiggering the judiciary, rewriting the laws to suit them. Do you want to export what's happening in Hungary to other parts of Europe?

SZIJJARTO: Why should we? You know, we are a country which respects the sovereignty of other countries. We always respect the decisions of the citizens of other countries regarding their own country. And we expect others to respect the decisions of the Hungarians about the future of Hungary. So mutual²² respect - this is very important. Don't put pressure on the others and let them decide about their own future.

KING: Joanna, it sounds like Hungary doesn't seem to respect the values of the European Union.

KAKISSIS: No. I mean, this idea of, yeah, we get to do what we want because we're a sovereign nation, I mean, that's acceptable in the European Union to a certain extent. But the European Union is a partnership²³. There are values that it was founded on - promoting a free press, promoting fair elections, not introducing divisive rhetoric²⁴. So Hungary saying things like, no, we're nationalists, we're going to do what we want, and you have to respect what we say because this is all about what we want, that's just not going to fly in today's European Union.

KING: Joanna Kakissis, thanks so much.

KAKISSIS: You're welcome.

1 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

2 judicial   

adj.司法的，法庭的，审判的，明断的，公正的

参考例句：

• He is a man with a judicial mind.他是个公正的人。
• Tom takes judicial proceedings against his father.汤姆对他的父亲正式提出诉讼。

3 eviscerated   

v.切除…的内脏( eviscerate的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• The censors eviscerated the book to make it inoffensive to the President. 审查员删去了该书的精华以取悦于总统。 来自辞典例句
• By the expulsion of surgery from the liberal arts medicine herself was eviscerated. 把外科排除于丰富的艺术之外，就使得医学本身去掉了内脏一样。 来自辞典例句

4 byline   

n.署名；v.署名

参考例句：

• His byline was absent as well.他的署名也不见了。
• We wish to thank the author of this article which carries no byline.我们要感谢这篇文章的那位没有署名的作者。

5 Soviet   

adj.苏联的，苏维埃的；n.苏维埃

参考例句：

• Zhukov was a marshal of the former Soviet Union.朱可夫是前苏联的一位元帅。
• Germany began to attack the Soviet Union in 1941.德国在1941年开始进攻苏联。

6 sector   

n.部门，部分；防御地段，防区；扇形

参考例句：

• The export sector will aid the economic recovery. 出口产业将促进经济复苏。
• The enemy have attacked the British sector.敌人已进攻英国防区。

7 systematically   

adv.有系统地

参考例句：

• This government has systematically run down public services since it took office.这一屆政府自上台以来系统地削减了公共服务。
• The rainforest is being systematically destroyed.雨林正被系统地毀灭。

8 outlet   

n.出口/路；销路；批发商店；通风口；发泄

参考例句：

• The outlet of a water pipe was blocked.水管的出水口堵住了。
• Running is a good outlet for his energy.跑步是他发泄过剩精力的好方法。

9 outlets   

n.出口( outlet的名词复数 )；经销店；插座；廉价经销店

参考例句：

• The dumping of foreign cotton blocked outlets for locally grown cotton. 外国棉花的倾销阻滞了当地生产的棉花的销路。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• They must find outlets for their products. 他们必须为自己的产品寻找出路。 来自《现代汉英综合大词典》

10 liar   

n.说谎的人

参考例句：

• I know you for a thief and a liar!我算认识你了，一个又偷又骗的家伙！
• She was wrongly labelled a liar.她被错误地扣上说谎者的帽子。

11 liars   

说谎者( liar的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• The greatest liars talk most of themselves. 最爱自吹自擂的人是最大的说谎者。
• Honest boys despise lies and liars. 诚实的孩子鄙视谎言和说谎者。

12 labor   

n.劳动，努力，工作，劳工；分娩；vi.劳动，努力，苦干；vt.详细分析；麻烦

参考例句：

• We are never late in satisfying him for his labor.我们从不延误付给他劳动报酬。
• He was completely spent after two weeks of hard labor.艰苦劳动两周后，他已经疲惫不堪了。

13 obligatory   

adj.强制性的，义务的，必须的

参考例句：

• It is obligatory for us to obey the laws.我们必须守法。
• It is obligatory on every citizen to safeguard our great motherland.保卫我们伟大的祖国是每一个公民应尽的义务。

14 quotas   

（正式限定的）定量( quota的名词复数 )； 定额； 指标； 摊派

参考例句：

• In fulfilling the production quotas, John made rings round all his fellow workers. 约翰完成生产定额大大超过他的同事们。
• Quotas of the means of production are allocated by the higher administrative bodies to the lower ones. 物资指标按隶属关系分配。

15 workforce   

n.劳动大军，劳动力

参考例句：

• A large part of the workforce is employed in agriculture.劳动人口中一大部分受雇于农业。
• A quarter of the local workforce is unemployed.本地劳动力中有四分之一失业。

16 migration   

n.迁移，移居，（鸟类等的）迁徙

参考例句：

• Swallows begin their migration south in autumn.燕子在秋季开始向南方迁移。
• He described the vernal migration of birds in detail.他详细地描述了鸟的春季移居。

17 pointed   

adj.尖的，直截了当的

参考例句：

• He gave me a very sharp pointed pencil.他给我一支削得非常尖的铅笔。
• She wished to show Mrs.John Dashwood by this pointed invitation to her brother.她想通过对达茨伍德夫人提出直截了当的邀请向她的哥哥表示出来。

18 lure   

n.吸引人的东西，诱惑物；vt.引诱，吸引

参考例句：

• Life in big cities is a lure for many country boys.大城市的生活吸引着许多乡下小伙子。
• He couldn't resist the lure of money.他不能抵制金钱的诱惑。

19 integration   

n.一体化，联合，结合

参考例句：

• We are working to bring about closer political integration in the EU.我们正在努力实现欧盟內部更加紧密的政治一体化。
• This was the greatest event in the annals of European integration.这是欧洲统一史上最重大的事件。

20 analysts   

分析家，化验员( analyst的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• City analysts forecast huge profits this year. 伦敦金融分析家预测今年的利润非常丰厚。
• I was impressed by the high calibre of the researchers and analysts. 研究人员和分析人员的高素质给我留下了深刻印象。

21 invaders   

入侵者，侵略者，侵入物( invader的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• They prepared to repel the invaders. 他们准备赶走侵略军。
• The family has traced its ancestry to the Norman invaders. 这个家族将自己的世系追溯到诺曼征服者。

22 mutual   

adj.相互的，彼此的；共同的，共有的

参考例句：

• We must pull together for mutual interest.我们必须为相互的利益而通力合作。
• Mutual interests tied us together.相互的利害关系把我们联系在一起。

23 partnership   

n.合作关系，伙伴关系

参考例句：

• The company has gone into partnership with Swiss Bank Corporation.这家公司已经和瑞士银行公司建立合作关系。
• Martin has taken him into general partnership in his company.马丁已让他成为公司的普通合伙人。

24 rhetoric   

n.修辞学，浮夸之言语

参考例句：

• Do you know something about rhetoric?你懂点修辞学吗？
• Behind all the rhetoric,his relations with the army are dangerously poised.在冠冕堂皇的言辞背后，他和军队的关系岌岌可危。