美国国家公共电台 NPR 'I Have To Ask You This': Julián Castro Pressed By Immigration Activist, Rancher

 

DAVID GREENE, HOST:

So what do undecided voters want to hear directly from presidential candidates? We're hitting the road to find out this fall. And this week, NPR Weekend Edition Sunday host Lulu Garcia-Navarro went to San Antonio for a conversation with former HUD secretary Julian Castro. They met at Mi Tierra, a restaurant that's famous in the city for its history, its food and for a massive mural of famous San Antonians, including Castro.

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, BYLINE¹: I did read - and I want to see if it's true - that you took your wife on your first date here. Is that true?

JULIAN CASTRO: That is true. That was well before I was on the mural, too.

(LAUGHTER)

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I was about to say...

CASTRO: I was not that arrogant².

GARCIA-NAVARRO: ...It's a good way to convince her.

CASTRO: Yeah, that's right.

GREENE: Lulu and Julian Castro sat down with two undecided voters from south Texas for whom immigration policy is top of mind. Alston Beinhorn is a rancher and retired³ banker. Dani Marrero Hi is an immigration rights organizer. She grew up on both sides of the U.S.-Mexico border, and she asked Castro about the millions being spent there on security.

DANI MARRERO HI: I want to know where does this conversation of border security - where does the interests and the wants and the needs of border residents come into play?

CASTRO: It's fundamental to the way that we need to move forward. The governor of Texas - they have put an extra $800 million of Texas money and personnel down on the border, and they have been unwilling⁴ and/or unable to actually explain how effective they have - that has been because it's probably been ineffective. In terms the Obama administration, I believe that the Obama administration improved over time with DACA and DAPA and that perhaps the most instructive thing that the administration did was, toward the end of the administration, it did this family case management program that essentially⁵ was instead of detaining families, allowed families to stay together - and oftentimes, they have relatives who live in the United States - go and stay with their relatives, you know, in a safe, loving home and also make sure that they check in for their court appearances. And it had a phenomenal over 95% success rate of getting people to actually return to their court appearances. I believe that we can do those things. We can also demilitarize our border for the benefit of the people who live down there.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Alston, what are your thoughts on this? I mean, you are a native San Antonian. Obviously, the issue of border security and what happens on the border is pertinent⁶ to you, too.

ALSTON BEINHORN: You know, immigration is a very important issue, and I think for all the reasons that we've been talking about and for another reason, which is that we - this country needs more laborers⁸. It's not a binary⁹ equation if someone's a citizen or not a citizen to me. There's a third way, which means that, you know, someone could come in on work permits and get a lifestyle that they deserve and want and go back to maybe their home countries every year or two and then come back and work more.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: So are you saying you wouldn't necessarily like undocumented immigrants to have a path for citizenship¹⁰ and there should be more of a guest worker program?

BEINHORN: I think that would be great. I mean, I think the path to citizenship is not the only solution. And, yes, they're good people, great contributors to society and to their families and they're - they deserve, you know, a great life. And I don't know how you feel about that.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: So how do you feel? Because you're hearing two sides of the Democratic Party here pretty clearly.

CASTRO: No, and I think, right now, we have elements of both of those, right? We have the ability for people to come and work. We have industries, whether it's agriculture or construction or the hospitality industry, that desperately¹¹ needs workers right now. They have been hurt by this administration and how they've approached immigration. I also believe, though, that, you know, if somebody comes and they give their labor⁷, ultimately they should have a pathway to citizenship. I also believe...

GARCIA-NAVARRO: But to Alston's point, there are an estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants here now. For some people, they see this as just a never-ending flow of immigrants who come here without authorization¹² and that perhaps giving them a pathway to citizenship will encourage them.

CASTRO: I wouldn't say that it's never-ending. In fact, you know, you think about 20 years ago, the majority of the people who were coming across the border were single Mexican men. Today, instead, they're people from these northern triangle countries in Central America. Well, why has that changed? Part of the reason that'd changed is because people could actually find more opportunity in Mexico than they used to. It's still unsafe in different parts of the country, but there is more opportunity there. So if what you - if what somebody is interested in is, what is the best approach so that 144,000 people are not coming to the southern border, I think the best approach is actually exactly where Trump¹³ has failed, which is that you need to work with Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala so that people can find safety and opportunity at home instead of having to make that dangerous journey here.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And you're saying immigration is the answer to that.

CASTRO: Immigration is one part of the answer to that. Yeah.

MARRERO HI: I understand that there are people indeed that want to come to United States to work, but there are hundreds of thousands of others that that is not necessarily why they're coming. And I've been working with a group right now of lesbian, gay, bisexual, queer and trans people who are from Cuba and different countries in Central America and because of the so-called Migrant Protection Protocols¹⁵ and Remain in Mexico and every single day, they're terrorized by homophobia, by trans misogyny, by extortion. There is just no way right now for us to confidently look at someone and say, yes, if you follow this process, these steps, then you're going to be able to apply for asylum¹⁶.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: So how would you change the asylum system as it is now?

CASTRO: Well, immediately, I would issue an executive order ending the Migrant Protection Protocol¹⁴ or Remain in Mexico policy. And Dani is right. It's a disaster of a policy. It flies in the face of the way that the United States has honored asylum claims in the past. And I would actually go back to how we used to do this, which was more effective.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Was it more effective, though? Because still people were waiting for years to see a judge in court. I mean, it is an imperfect system.

CASTRO: Well, it was more effective than what we have now, but it does have to be improved. And one of the ways that we can improve it is to improve our immigration court system. But the first thing we got to do is end this Remain in Mexico policy that is subjecting people who are already desperate to beatings and extortion and to, you know, these drug cartels that are kidnapping them and then getting money from their relatives in Central America.

(SOUNDBITE OF THE AMERICAN DOLLAR'S "SHADOWS")

GREENE: That was former HUD Secretary Julian Castro speaking with NPR's Lulu Garcia-Navarro as we kick off our series Off Script, conversations with the candidates. And you can hear more across NPR today. Also, videos of the conversation are at npr.org/offscript.

(SOUNDBITE OF THE AMERICAN DOLLAR'S "SHADOWS")

1 byline   

n.署名；v.署名

参考例句：

• His byline was absent as well.他的署名也不见了。
• We wish to thank the author of this article which carries no byline.我们要感谢这篇文章的那位没有署名的作者。

2 arrogant   

adj.傲慢的，自大的

参考例句：

• You've got to get rid of your arrogant ways.你这骄傲劲儿得好好改改。
• People are waking up that he is arrogant.人们开始认识到他很傲慢。

3 retired   

adj.隐退的，退休的，退役的

参考例句：

• The old man retired to the country for rest.这位老人下乡休息去了。
• Many retired people take up gardening as a hobby.许多退休的人都以从事园艺为嗜好。

4 unwilling   

adj.不情愿的

参考例句：

• The natives were unwilling to be bent by colonial power.土著居民不愿受殖民势力的摆布。
• His tightfisted employer was unwilling to give him a raise.他那吝啬的雇主不肯给他加薪。

5 essentially   

adv.本质上，实质上，基本上

参考例句：

• Really great men are essentially modest.真正的伟人大都很谦虚。
• She is an essentially selfish person.她本质上是个自私自利的人。

6 pertinent   

adj.恰当的；贴切的；中肯的；有关的；相干的

参考例句：

• The expert made some pertinent comments on the scheme.那专家对规划提出了一些中肯的意见。
• These should guide him to pertinent questions for further study.这些将有助于他进一步研究有关问题。

7 labor   

n.劳动，努力，工作，劳工；分娩；vi.劳动，努力，苦干；vt.详细分析；麻烦

参考例句：

• We are never late in satisfying him for his labor.我们从不延误付给他劳动报酬。
• He was completely spent after two weeks of hard labor.艰苦劳动两周后，他已经疲惫不堪了。

8 laborers   

n.体力劳动者，工人( laborer的名词复数 )；（熟练工人的）辅助工

参考例句：

• Laborers were trained to handle 50-ton compactors and giant cranes. 工人们接受操作五十吨压土机和巨型起重机的训练。 来自《现代英汉综合大词典》
• Wage-labour rests exclusively on competition between the laborers. 雇佣劳动完全是建立在工人的自相竞争之上的。 来自英汉非文学 - 共产党宣言

9 binary   

adj.二，双；二进制的；n.双(体)；联星

参考例句：

• Computers operate using binary numbers.计算机运行运用二进位制。
• Let us try converting the number itself to binary.我们试一试，把这个数本身变成二进制数。

10 citizenship   

n.市民权，公民权，国民的义务(身份)

参考例句：

• He was born in Sweden,but he doesn't have Swedish citizenship.他在瑞典出生，但没有瑞典公民身分。
• Ten years later,she chose to take Australian citizenship.十年后，她选择了澳大利亚国籍。

11 desperately   

adv.极度渴望地，绝望地，孤注一掷地

参考例句：

• He was desperately seeking a way to see her again.他正拼命想办法再见她一面。
• He longed desperately to be back at home.他非常渴望回家。

12 authorization   

n.授权，委任状

参考例句：

• Anglers are required to obtain prior authorization from the park keeper.垂钓者必须事先得到公园管理者的许可。
• You cannot take a day off without authorization.未经批准你不得休假。

13 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

14 protocol   

n.议定书，草约，会谈记录，外交礼节

参考例句：

• We must observe the correct protocol.我们必须遵守应有的礼仪。
• The statesmen signed a protocol.那些政治家签了议定书。

15 protocols   

n.礼仪( protocol的名词复数 )；（外交条约的）草案；（数据传递的）协议；科学实验报告（或计划）

参考例句：

• There are also protocols on the testing of nuclear weapons. 也有关于核武器试验的协议。 来自辞典例句
• Hardware components and software design of network transport protocols are separately introduced. 介绍系统硬件组成及网络传输协议的软件设计。 来自互联网

16 asylum   

n.避难所，庇护所，避难

参考例句：

• The people ask for political asylum.人们请求政治避难。
• Having sought asylum in the West for many years,they were eventually granted it.他们最终获得了在西方寻求多年的避难权。