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Katie Couric : Alan Deutschman is a senior writer of Fast Company Magazine, who wrote the cover story for the July issue entitled "Is your boss a psychopath? ". Alan , good morning , nice to see you!
Alan Deutschman: Good morning , Katie
Katie Couric : Don't many bosses share at least a couple of these traits, in other words , there are couple of bad qualities in them?
Alan Deutschman : You know most people have some of these traits to a small degree . The difference is a psychopath hazard in spades.
Katie Couric: Right. And the combination of psychopathic behavior and power's probably pretty lethal.
Alan Deutschman: That's right. And the power is the magnet for psychopath, you know they're , ur, they're attracted by, they want things that are thrilling . they want games that they can win and so companies give them that arena.
Katie Couric: Alright. We have a little quiz that people can take at home, so they can get their pencil in and paper out to find out if their boss may be a psychopath. The first question is : "Is your boss a superficially charming or grandiose", right?
Alan Deutschman: That's right. These people, they're very charming, they are very likable, they are seductive. They want you to be their friends and their ally, but it's really all about them. "
Katie Couric: Somewhat is you mark one, and yes sure you mark two. What about lacking empathy? Why are psychopathic bosses so lacking it or unable to relate to their , to their , ur , workers?
Alan Deutschman: Well these people aren't like you and me. They are profoundly selfish. They don't care about you , they don't care about their feelings . They can lay you off , they can fire you, they can backstab you . It does not make them worry.
Katie Couric: Ok do they fake that they're empathetic at least?
Alan Deutschman: That's right. They are great actors , they are like Hollywood actors , and they can lie , they can manipulate . They don't have feelings for us , but they know how to play our feelings.
Katie Couric: OK. In fact that's the next question: "Does your boss lie or manipulate? " And I was gonna say, many corporate psychopaths will refuse to take responsibilities as we've seen in some of these corporate cases, right?
Alan Deutschman: It's amazing. You see these people and they are convicted. They might even go to prison, but they don't say they did anything wrong , they say they varied victims actually.
Katie Couric: All right. Now we add up our scores I'm not sure if anyone could keep up with this, but one to four means you shouldn't worry. Your boss is probably just frustrated. Five to six means you should be afraid, and seven to eight means you should be very afraid. So what do you do if you are very afraid or afraid? How do you deal with someone like this?
Alan Deutschman: Well, the first thing to do is to be suspicious of flattery. Because these people they will try to disarm you, so they can then use you or backstab you. So they'll come with extreme flattery. So you'll like them and you'll think they're your friends and your loyalists, and your guard will be down.
Katie Couric: You say question authority, avoid suspicious activities and assess the damage to your life. And in a nutshell, what does that mean exactly?
Alan Deutschman: That means that just because your boss says something is ok, it doesn't mean it is ok. And you know a lot of things can be in your job description, but lying, cheating and stealing or helping someone else to do those things or covering up. That's not legit.
Katie Couric: And a psychopath would often try to get you into his or her web, so you are partaking these activities which could spot from some serious trouble for you down the road right?
Alan Deutschman: That's right. And for the company, that's how things like Enron happened.
Katie Couric: And so when do you know you need to quit, because it's hard to find a job these days.
Alan Deutschman: It is. You know it's hard to have a good job. The economy isn't great, but since something emotional damage. It's just too much
Katie Couric: And it's hard to get to human resources and say , My boss is a psychopath, so you know you have pretty limited options, right? but at times as you said, sometimes enough is enough. "
Alan Deutschman: That's right.
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