Todd: We're talking about education and about, you know, people applying themselves and giving grades and giving praise and stuff like that. Have you ever thought that maybe we, because we're both teachers, both of us are teachers, that maybe we put too much effort on judging everybody and that maybe it's OK for kids to realise failure is not really a bad thing or maybe quitting is not a bad thing?

Julia: Absolutely. Yeah, I think, I think all the emphasis should be put on the effort that people make and yeah the failing or succeeding is kind of secondary to that.

 

Todd: Because it does seem that we push kids at all levels to get good grades, go to college, get that good job and that, that usually works out but in a lot of cases people find success because they fail, because they don't do well and that leads them to something else in life. So I guess, I'm not saying don't try, just quit at everything, but that we have to just accept that actually maybe quitting is not such a bad thing.

 

Julia: No, I don't think it is. No, I think you're working, that's all part of the learning process, working out what. I was lucky. I was given very good advice at school and I wasn't pushed to get good grades, I wasn't pushed to pursue a career. The advice I was given was do what you enjoy doing cos they're the things you'll be good at.

 

Todd: Yeah.

 

Julia: And that was great advice. I don't have a career but I'm happy.

 

Todd: There you go. There was a great quote the other day by someone in the paper about starting your own business and the person said, you know, follow your passion and keep at it and the money will follow and I think that's pretty much the case for a lot of people that, you know, that they find success. It's kind of how it worked out for me with the website actually. So Elllo, I did it for years, I didn't make any money and now it makes a little money but I just enjoyed it. I kept doing it, I kept doing it and I think that's kind of the key. Don't stop.

 

Julia: There's that other famous quote about doing what makes you come alive. Don't ask what the world needs, ask what makes you come alive because the world needs people who've come alive, meaning like pursue your passion and that will lead to success, whatever success means. It's the way we define success as well is also part of the problem.

 

Todd: True, true.

 

Julia: You know, high income, is that success? And in my book that's not what success is. Success is happiness.

 

Todd: So what is happiness?

 

Julia: Happiness is just contentment, absolute peace with the way you are right now and what you're doing right now. Not striving or yearning for things that are beyond your grasp.

 

Todd: Beyond your reach?

 

Julia: Yeah.

 

Todd: Yeah, that's good.