美国国家公共电台 NPR Former Officials Say White House's Use Of Secret System Is Unusual, 'Disturbing'（在线收听）

NOEL KING, HOST:

Yesterday a whistleblower's seven-page complaint was made public. It claims that the White House tried to, quote, "lockdown the notes of a call between President Trump and the president of Ukraine." To do that, the complaint says, the White House put those notes about the call in to a codeword-level system. That system is reserved for highly sensitive information. President Trump and the White House, we should note, say none of this is true.

NPR's White House reporter Ayesha Rascoe is on the line. Good morning, Ayesha.

AYESHA RASCOE, BYLINE: Good morning.

KING: So you have been talking to former National Security Council officials. What are they saying about how normal or abnormal this behavior is?

RASCOE: So I talked to officials from different administrations, and they say taking an action like this was just really unheard of during their time at the NSC. Phone calls between the president and world leaders are typically classified, but they're not treated in this manner, which is really reserved for details about intelligence programs or tools that the U.S. would not want other countries to know about.

I spoke with Michael Green, who worked at the NSC for about five years during the Bush administration. He pointed out that this was after Sept. 11. And this is what he had to say about his experience with these calls.

MICHAEL GREEN: Even in that context, I had never heard or witnessed what we're seeing now, where a transcript was routed directly to the most sensitive, compartmented security clearance so that no one could see it.

RASCOE: Because of that, he said he found these allegations to be pretty disturbing. Ned Price was a senior director at the NSC during the Obama administration, and he also said he'd never heard of anyone taking actions like this. He pointed out that this idea that is - that this information would need to be stored on a separate system is undercut by the administration's decision to release unredacted notes on the call. So it would appear that there wasn't really classified information discussed.

KING: Yeah, that's an interesting point. So we have this system for highly sensitive information. What do we know about how the system works, the logistics of it?

RASCOE: So there are different classification systems. And what seems to be referred to in the complaint would be a compartment within the category of top-secret information.

This system was in place in prior administrations and is still in place for the Trump administration, according to a former NSC official that worked under Trump.

What's key about the system is that only select people in the administration would be able to access it. This official told NPR's Franco Ordo?ez that only about four to six people in the White House likely had access. And information in this system is shared in person, not over unsecured phone lines or through email.

KING: OK. So this is interesting. This system existed prior to the Trump administration. We may not have known about it if it hadn't been for this whistleblower complaint. But it does make me wonder, what is the White House saying about all of this?

RASCOE: So right now, they're not saying much. I asked this - the White House specifically about this allegation and whether they will confirm or deny it and they declined to go beyond this earlier statement that basically bashed the complaint as a whole and said - and didn't really confirm or deny what happened or what this complaint is alleging.

I did ask a White House adviser, Kellyanne Conway, about it, and she said she didn't know about the NSC process. But she argued that what's important is that the president has now made these notes about the call public, basically saying that should be the focus.

But at least one prominent Republican is saying he didn't see anything - he wouldn't see anything wrong with his action. Kevin McCarthy, the top Republican in the House, said that he could understand why the White House might have wanted to store these details in a more secure fashion. He's pointing out how much technology has advanced.

KING: Changing times, he's saying. NPR's Ayesha Rascoe. Thanks so much, Ayesha.

RASCOE: Thank you.