PBS高端访谈:黑人男性在星巴克遭捕 费城黑人哗然（在线收听）

JUDY WOODRUFF: Last week, two African-American men were arrested in a downtown Philadelphia Starbucks. Amna Nawaz looks at how the Seattle-based coffee chain is struggling to address the resulting outcry on social media and elsewhere.

AMNA NAWAZ: And that outcry built to a crowd of protesters at that particular Starbucks today, unmoved by CEO Kevin Johnson's apologies and call for unconscious bias training for employees. All this after video of last Thursday's incident went viral. The clip shows police officers confronting two black men seated inside the Starbucks as they wait for a third guest. The store manager reportedly called police after the men asked to use the bathroom without buying anything first. Minutes of calm conversation follow. Police officers eventually handcuff both men and force them to leave. Starbucks' Kevin Johnson today called the arrests reprehensible, apologized to the men, and vowed to make sure this didn't happen again. For more on this, I am joined by Philadelphia City Councilman Kenyatta Johnson, who represents the district in which this Starbucks is located. Councilman Johnson, thank you for your time, and welcome. I want to begin by asking you now, since you have met with a number of people involved in this incident, why do you believe that it ended up in this way?

KENYATTA JOHNSON, Philadelphia City Councilman: Well, you know, first and foremost, being the councilperson of the 2nd Councilmanic District, which is a very diverse district, but we also represent the Starbucks in my district, I want to make sure, as a councilperson, that no form of racial bias or racial profiling is accepted. And so we called a press conference today to address this issue and to denounce the recent arrest of the two African-American young men who were arrested after waiting while being black in the Starbucks cafe. And as we move forward, we want to make sure that Starbucks have come up with a plan to specifically address the issue of diversity and inclusion, as well as addressing the issue of racial awareness when it comes to how their business operates.

AMNA NAWAZ: Now, Councilman, you have now spoken to a number of people involved. You have seen a lot more than most of us, who have only seen the video.

KENYATTA JOHNSON: Yes.

AMNA NAWAZ: Do you believe that these men are the victims of racial bias?

KENYATTA JOHNSON: Yes. You know, everyone knows that Starbucks' brand is, you can come there, use their Wi-Fi and, in that environment, you know, have meetings and take a moment and take care of your day-to-day business while you're inside their particular store. That's always a part of their brand. In this particular case, you have two African-American young men. They're not dressed in suits. They're in Rittenhouse Square, which is a high-income area in Center City, Philadelphia. And the person who actually called the police, I believe, overreacted, when she had the interaction with these young men who said they were waiting for someone to come and meet with them. And that resulted in her calling the cops, which resulted in the unnecessary arrest of the two African-American young men. And so a lot of people in my district are in outrage. A lot of people in my district want answers. But, most importantly, they want to make sure we continue to hold Starbucks accountable.

AMNA NAWAZ: So, let me ask you about that. Now, the first reaction from Starbucks was a rather tepid policy. The backlash grew. There was then a more robust statement followed by a video statement from the CEO, Kevin Johnson, in which he said this:

KEVIN JOHNSON, CEO, Starbucks: These two gentlemen didn't deserve what happened. And we are accountable. I am accountable. Now, going through this, I'm going to do everything I can to ensure it is fixed and never happens again, whether that is changes to the policy and the practice, additional store manager training, including training around unconscious bias, and we will address this.

AMNA NAWAZ: Councilman Johnson, are you satisfied with Starbucks' response?

KENYATTA JOHNSON: Not at all. You know, listen, I have worked with several major corporations in a variety of different aspects regarding organizing for wages for low-income individuals, and I know how this game works. We need to see more than just lip service. We need an action plan that specifically goes toward racial sensitive training, but also a campaign to let the people here in the city of Philadelphia know that anyone is welcome to come to the Starbucks cafe without being -- without fearing any type of racial or social bias perspective when it comes to individuals hanging out or coming to frequent and patronize their business. It's totally unacceptable. Again, people are in outrage, and we have to continue to make sure that they aren't just giving an apology. We want an action plan to actually address this issue.

AMNA NAWAZ: You mentioned that the manager who had originally first called the police to the scene, she has now reportedly been removed from the store pending an investigation. Is that the standard to which you, as councilman, would hold other businesses in your district, that they should remove employees who exhibit any kind of racial bias?

KENYATTA JOHNSON: Absolutely. I would go even further to say if the evidence shows that they have exhibited some sort of racial bias, they should be fired, to be frank with you, because, at the end of the day, nobody should feel, in the year 2018, any form of racial discrimination, regardless of their background, regardless of their lifestyle and, most importantly, regardless of their race. And so this is totally unacceptable. And Starbucks must be held accountable. And beyond just issuing an apology, beyond just removing the young lady, we need to have an action plan to make sure there's racial sensitivity training for the employees. We need to also make sure the people of Philadelphia know, from an racial awareness campaign from Starbucks, that anyone can come to Starbucks and feel welcome, without feeling that they will be kicked out based upon their race, creed or color.

AMNA NAWAZ: Philadelphia City Councilman Kenyatta Johnson, thanks for your time.

KENYATTA JOHNSON: Thanks for having me here today.

茱蒂·伍德瑞夫：上周，两个非洲裔美国人在费城市中心的一家星巴克被捕。阿曼娜·纳瓦兹看这家总部位于西雅图的咖啡连锁店如何努力解决随后社会媒体的抗议。

阿曼娜·纳瓦兹：今天，这起抗议事件引发一群抗议者汇聚到了那家星巴克，他们对星巴克首席执行官凯文·约翰逊的致歉无动于衷，要求对其员工进行无意识偏见培训。上周四事件发生后，关于此事的视频在网上疯传。这张照片显示，警察与两名坐在星巴克内的黑人遭遇，当他们等待第三位客人的时候。据报道，在男子要求在不买任何东西的情况下使用卫生间时，店长叫了警察。随后展开了几分钟平静的谈话。警察最终用手铐逮捕了男子，并迫使他们离开。今天星巴克的凯文·约翰逊称，逮捕行为应该受到谴责，并向人们致歉，发誓要确保此类事件不再发生。关于此事的更多内容，我邀请了费城市议员肯雅塔·约翰逊，其所代表的地区正是那家星巴克的所在地。议员约翰逊，谢谢你，欢迎。首先，我想问你，既然你见到了，很多人都参与了此事，那么你为什么相信，这件事会以这样的方式结束？

肯雅塔·约翰逊，费城市议员：嗯，你知道，首先，第二议员分区非常多元化，作为这一分区的理事，但我们也代表着我区的星巴克，我想确定，作为一个理事，我们不能接受任何形式的种族偏见。因此，我们今天召开了记者招待会来解决这一问题，并谴责最近对两名非洲裔年轻人的逮捕行为，他们在星巴克咖啡馆等候的时候被捕，就因为他们是黑人。当我们向前进行推进时，我们想确保星巴克已提出了一个具体解决多样化和包容性问题的计划，以及当涉及商业运作时，如何解决种族意识问题。

阿曼娜·纳瓦兹：现在，议员，你现在以及对事件涉及人士讲了。你看到的，比我们大多数人都多，他们只看过视频。

肯雅塔·约翰逊：是的。

阿曼娜·纳瓦兹：你是否相信这些人是种族歧视的受害者？

肯雅塔·约翰逊：是的。你知道，每个人都知道星巴克的品牌宗旨是：你可以到那里，使用他们的Wi-Fi，置身那个环境，你知道，开会，闲坐，料理你的日常工作，当你在他们的店铺里时。这一直是他们品牌的一部分。在这例个案中，有两名非洲裔美国年轻人。他们没有穿西装。他们在利顿豪斯广场，在费城森特城的一个高收入地区。报警的那个人，我相信，她反应过度了，当她与这些年轻人交谈，得知他们是在等人。而这导致她打电话给了警察，并导致两名非裔美国年轻人不必要的逮捕。所以我所在地区的很多人都很愤慨。我区的很多人都想知道答案。但最重要的是，他们希望确保，我们会继续追究星巴克的责任。

阿曼娜·纳瓦兹：那么，让我来问问你这个问题。现在，星巴克的第一反应是给出了一个相当温和的政策。强烈抵制增加。接着在CEO凯文·约翰逊发表了一份视频声明后，一份言辞更加有力的声明发布，在视频声明中，他说：凯文·约翰逊，首席执行官，星巴克：这两位绅士不该遭遇这样的事。我们有责任。我有责任。现在，通过这一点，我将尽我所能确保此类事件不再发生，无论是政策上还是实践上的变化，额外的店长培训，包括无意识偏见培训，我们将解决这一问题。

阿曼娜·纳瓦兹：议员约翰逊，你对星巴克的回应满意吗？

肯雅塔·约翰逊：一点也不。你知道，听着，关于低收入人群的收入问题，我已经联合了不同领域的多家大公司，我知道游戏规则。我们需要的不仅仅是口头表示。我们需要一个行动计划，专门针对种族敏感的培训，同时也是一个运动，让费城的人们知道，在光顾星巴克问题上，任何人都可以去星巴克咖啡馆，而不必担心任何种族或社会偏见的观点。这完全是不可接受的。再次说明，人们仍在愤怒，我们必须确保，收获的不仅仅是道歉。我们需要一个行动计划来真正解决这个问题。

阿曼娜·纳瓦兹：你提到，那个最先叫警察到达现场的店长，据报道，她现在遭到停职，等待调查。他们应该开除有种族偏见的员工，作为议员，你所在地区的其他行业也都坚持这一准则吗？

肯雅塔·约翰逊：毫无疑问。我还要进一步说，如果证据表明他们表现出某种种族偏见，就应该解雇他们，坦白地说，因为，在2018年，不管他们的背景如何，不管他们的生活方式怎样，最重要的是，无论何种种族，不会再有任何人感受到种族歧视。所以这是完全不可接受的。星巴克必须负起责任。除了道歉之外，除了开出哪位女士之外，我们还需要制定一个行动计划来确保对员工进行种族敏感性培训。我们还需要确保让费城人知道，从星巴克的种族意识宣传活动中，任何人都可以来到星巴克，感受到欢迎的态度，而不觉得他们会因种族、信仰或肤色被踢出来。

阿曼娜·纳瓦兹：费城市议员肯雅塔·约翰逊，谢谢你。

肯雅塔·约翰逊：谢谢你今天的邀请。