PBS高端访谈:大规模监禁从何而来（在线收听）

AMNA NAWAZ: On any given day, approximately 50,000 young people in the U.S. are held in juvenile prisons. Johnnie McDaniels, a judge in Hinds County, Mississippi, believes America's mass incarceration problem actually begins during teenage years. McDaniels spent three years as executive director of the Henley-Young Juvenile Justice Center, and offers this Brief But Spectacular take.

JUDGE JOHNNIE MCDANIELS, Former Executive Director, Henley-Young Juvenile Justice Center: Being a prosecutor is about making sure that justice prevails. I'm an absolute advocate, and I advocated from the courtroom, that if a person wasn't guilty of something, the system is designed that that person should be let go. The criminal justice system was always interesting to me. I'm the youngest of 10 children. One older brother has had the misfortune of having got caught up in the criminal justice system, and actually went to prison. I would go and visit him with my mom at the state penitentiary in Parchman. And he would always give the most wonderful story when we were there with my mom, you know, I'm doing fine, and I'm going to be OK, and they treat me nicely, and that type of thing. When she was gone, you know, you would hear the other side of it. You would hear the difficulties associated with being incarcerated in the state of Mississippi, the difficulties associated with not having proper legal representation. So, I was always saying, you know, at one point, you know, I'm going to go to law school, and I'm going to be a great defense attorney. And I'm going to make sure that I can make a difference for people like my brother. As I stood in the courtroom prosecuting young people between the ages of 18 and 21, one of the first dynamics that I absolutely encountered was, all of them have some type of involvement with the juvenile justice system. So, seeing that, I naturally began to ask questions about what's going on with juvenile justice issues in Jackson, Mississippi, and found some pretty astonishing things in terms of the number of young people who were not being adjudicated, the number of young people who were not receiving the type of services that were necessary. The system not having the proper mechanisms in place to deal with the revolving door of juvenile justice is absolutely problematic. Many of those juveniles have been the subject of some type of abuse, some type of neglect, some type of trauma. That's why it's so important to have the right type of mental health professionals in place when you're dealing with juveniles who are engaged in the criminal justice system. If you allow it to just kind of not receive the proper attention that it deserves, you're going to have a young person who's going to matriculate from age 13 engaging in behavior, all the way until they do something so unfortunate and sensational that they're on the 5:00 evening news. And, at that point, there is no more saving. I absolutely believe that we can divert and rehabilitate young people, so that we won't have so many people in the criminal justice system. And if you don't get it right at the juvenile level in the context of criminal justice, you're never going to get it right at the adult level. I'm not talking about, you know, making communities unsafe. There's a way to do this in such a way that we can have smart justice, safe communities, but make sure that our jails and prisons are not full of people who shouldn't be there. My name is Johnnie McDaniels, and this is my Brief But Spectacular take on the revolving door of juvenile justice.

AMNA NAWAZ: You can watch additional Brief But Spectacular episodes on our Web site, PBS.org/NewsHour/Brief.

阿姆纳·纳瓦兹：平均每天，美国都有近5万名年轻人被收入少管所。约翰尼·麦克代尼尔斯是密西西比州海恩兹县的法官，他认为，美国的大规模监禁问题实际上是从青少年开始的。麦克代尼尔斯曾在亨利青少年司法中心担任过3年的执行理事，他是我们本期《简短而精彩》的主人公。

法官约翰尼·麦克代尼尔斯，亨利青少年司法中心前执行理事：作为检察官，我们的职责是确保司法秩序高于一切。我们的司法系统规定，如果一个人无罪，那么这个人就应该得到释放。这一点，我是绝对支持的，这也是我在法庭上倡导的一点。我们的刑事司法系统让我着迷。我家有10个孩子，我是最小的一个。我的一个哥哥很不幸被刑事司法系统判定为有罪，并锒铛入狱。我会和母亲去探望他，地点在密西西比州州立监狱——帕克曼农庄监狱。哥哥向来报喜不报忧，比如他总是说：我很好，我会没事的，他们对我很好之类的话。但母亲走了之后，哥哥就是另一个样子了。哥哥会诉说他在密西西比州监狱的艰难生活环境，以及他在法律上得不到公正对待的艰难处境。于是，有一阵子，我总是告诉自己，要读政法类院校，要成为一名优秀的辩护律师。我一定要为哥哥这样的人打抱不平。当我成为一名法官，起诉18-21岁不等的年轻人时，我避无可避的第一个事实是：这些青少年都与刑事司法系统有某种脱不开的干系。在认识到这一点之后，很自然地，我开始思考密西西比州杰克逊市刑事司法系统的一些问题。并发现了一些惊人的真相，这真相与受到判决的青少年人数有关，与如此庞大的青少年群体无法接收到必要类型的服务有关。司法系统没有适当的机制来应对青少年司法门槛的问题，这绝对是有问题的。这些青少年中的很多人涉嫌参与某种虐待行为、某种忽视或者某种创痛。因此，很重要的一点是要配备合适的心理健康专业人士，去跟刑事司法系统中的这些青少年接触。如果我们对青少年无法获得足够关注的问题坐视不理，就会出现年纪才13岁就有非法行为的少年。直到有一天，演变为凌晨5点轰动社会的不幸新闻。等到这一步，已经无法挽回。我坚信我们可以改变年轻人，让他们恢复美好的品质，这样司法体系中才不会有这么受到监禁的人。如果司法体系中从青少年这层开始就下梁不正，那么上梁一定是歪的。我的意思不是说增加社会的危险度。睿智的司法系统、安全的社群环境，这样的目标是可以实现的，但我们一定要确保监狱里不要关进本不必出现的人。我是约翰尼·麦克代尼尔斯，这是我本期有关应对青少年司法门槛的《简短而精彩》。

阿姆纳·纳瓦兹：其他期的《简短而精彩》可以在PBS.org/NewsHour/Brief上收听。