美国国家公共电台 NPR 美四大科技巨头CEO出席反垄断听证会（在线收听）

They were called the cyber barons and modern monopolists. Amazon's Jeff Bezos, Apple's Tim Cook, Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg and Google's Sundar Pichai spent almost six hours fielding questions from Congress over video conference yesterday. Here's how House antitrust chief Rhode Island Democrat David Cicilline set the stage for the hearing yesterday.

他们被称为网络大亨和现代垄断者。昨天，亚马逊的杰夫·贝佐斯、苹果的蒂姆·库克、脸谱网的马克·扎克伯格以及谷歌的桑达尔·皮查伊以视频会议的方式接受国会质询，听证时间接近6个小时。以下是众议院反垄断小组负责人、罗德岛民主党议员大卫·西林为昨天举行的听证会奠定的基调。

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DAVID CICILLINE: Our founders would not bow before a king, nor should we bow before the emperors of the online economy.

大卫·西林：我们的创始人不会在国王面前鞠躬，我们也不应该在网络经济帝王面前鞠躬。

GREENE: OK. Before we go on, we should note that all of these companies are among financial supporters of NPR. Let's bring in NPR's Alina Selyukh, who covered this. Hi, Alina.

格林：好。在我们继续报道之前，我们应该指出，这些公司都是NPR新闻的资助方。下面我们来连线NPR的艾丽娜·塞尔约克，由她进行详细报道。你好，艾丽娜。

ALINA SELYUKH, BYLINE: Good morning.

艾丽娜·塞尔约克连线：早上好。

GREENE: So what did we learn yesterday?

格林：我们昨天了解到了哪些情况？

SELYUKH: So the House lawmakers, who called this hearing, have been investigating these companies for over a year now. And yesterday, we got a first taste of what it is that they've learned from all the interviews, documents and emails that they've collected. It was a fairly adversarial situation with the CEOs. In a way, this was a tale of two hearings.

塞尔约克：召集这场听证会的众议院议员已经对这些公司进行了一年多的调查。昨天，我们首次知道了他们从各种问询以及所收集文件和电邮中了解到的信息。可以说，情况与首席执行官相对立。从某种程度上说，这相当于两场听证会。

One was the key focus — how the tech giants may have grown at the expense of others. For example, lawmakers grilled Facebook about how the company buys or replicates rivals that threaten to lure away its users like Instagram. Washington Democrat Pramila Jayapal read off emails between Zuckerberg and other executives.

其一是关键焦点，即科技巨头如何在牺牲他人的情况下发展壮大。比如，议员质问脸谱网，该公司如何收购或抄袭可能吸引走其用户的竞争对手，比如Instagram。华盛顿州民主党议员普拉米拉·贾亚帕尔朗读了扎克伯格和其他高管之间的电子邮件。

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PRAMILA JAYAPAL: Do you copy your competitors?

普拉米拉·贾亚帕尔：你抄袭你的竞争对手了吗？

MARK ZUCKERBERG: Congresswoman, we've certainly adapted features that others have led in as have others copied and adapted features that we've...

马克·扎克伯格：国会议员，我们肯定会在我们的产品里使用别人首先做出的功能，别人也会抄袭和使用我们的功能……

JAYAPAL: I'm not concerned about others. I'm just asking you, Mr. Zuckerberg.

贾亚帕尔：我不关心别人。我是在问你，扎克伯格先生。

SELYUKH: Similarly, Google has been accused by Yelp and others of stealing restaurant reviews and other content. Some small sellers on Amazon have complained about feeling trapped and dealing with constantly changing rules. App developers have accused Apple of unfairly charging them different fees. All four CEOs face different versions of the same question about how they throw their weight around to bully competitors out of the way.

塞尔约克：同样，谷歌也被Yelp和其他公司指控窃取餐厅评价和其他内容。一些亚马逊上的小型卖家投诉称，他们感觉自已被困住，还要应对不断变化的规则。应用程序开发者指责苹果公司不公平地向他们收取各种费用。所有四家公司的首席执行官都面临同一个问题的不同版本，即他们如何施展自已的力量解决竞争对手。

GREENE: All right, so a lot there. But there was more, right? You said this was a tale of two hearings.

格林：好，有很多信息。但还有更多内容，对吧？你刚才说这相当于两场听证会。

SELYUKH: Yes. You know, as I said, the point of this hearing was how tech companies deal with competition. But a big chunk of the hearing had nothing to do with that. Several of Republicans, particularly the firebrand Jim Jordan from Ohio, probed the CEOs for anti-conservative bias.

塞尔约克：对。正如我所说，这场听证会的重点是科技公司如何应对竞争。但听证会的大部分内容都与此无关。多名共和党人，尤其是来自俄亥俄州的煽动者吉姆·乔丹，调查了这些首席执行官的反保守偏见。

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JIM JORDAN: Mr. Cook, is the cancel culture mob dangerous?

吉姆·乔丹：库克先生，取消文化暴徒危险吗？

SELYUKH: Jordan demanded neutrality from Google in the upcoming election. He asked if all the CEOs supported diversity of opinions, which actually prompted a bit of an interesting moment. Bezos took a dig at discourse on social media, calling social networks nuance destruction machines. I wish we could see Mark Zuckerberg's face at that moment. He was right there, but the video conference did not show him.

塞尔约克：乔丹要求谷歌在即将举行的总统大选中保持中立。他询问是否四家公司的首席执行官均支持观点多元化，这实际上引发了一个有趣时刻。贝佐斯挖苦了社交媒体上的言论，称社交网络是精细的毁灭机器。我希望我们能看到那一刻马克·扎克伯格的表情。他就在那里，但视频会议没有给他特写。

GREENE: Yeah. It's a different scene when we're in video conference, and I'm watching them all sitting there...

格林：好。进行视频会议是另一种场景，我看到他们都坐在那里……

SELYUKH: Right.

塞尔约克：对。

GREENE: ...Behind that desk. So what was your impression of these CEOs? Like, how did they handle themselves yesterday?

格林：坐在桌子后面。你对这些首席执行官有何印象？比如，他们昨天是如何应对的？

SELYUKH: You know, they rejected the entire premise of the hearing that they're big bullies. They played up their humble beginnings, how much people value their product, how they still face competition. Bezos was billed as the big get for the hearing, the first appearance by the world's richest person before Congress. He had technical difficulties and got no questions for over an hour, even was caught on video sneaking some snacks. But then came a series of questions about how Amazon treats sellers on its platform, starting with Jayapal asking, does Amazon use data it collects from other sellers to make its own products? And Bezos replied...

塞尔约克：他们反对听证会的全部前提，即他们是“恶霸”。他们大力渲染自已卑微的开端，人们对他们的产品有多重视，他们仍面临竞争等等。贝佐斯被视为听证会的重要人物，这是世界首富首次在国会作证。他遇到了技术方面的困难，一个多小时都没有被提问，甚至被拍到偷吃零食的画面。但之后，议员就亚马逊如何对待其平台卖家提出了一系列问题，最先提问的是贾亚帕尔，问题是亚马逊是否利用其从其他卖家那里收集的数据来制造自已的产品？贝佐斯的回答是……

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JEFF BEZOS: What I can tell you is we have a policy against using seller-specific data to aid our private-label business. But I can't guarantee you that that policy has never been violated.

杰夫·贝佐斯：我可以告诉你的是，我们有一项政策，禁止使用特定的卖家数据协助自有品牌业务。但我不能保证这项政策从未被违反过。

SELYUKH: An unexpected concession from Bezos. Overall, companies essentially argued bad episodes were outliers. Their entire goal is to make users happy. And now we wait to see what the committee thinks when they release their final findings of the investigation.

塞尔约克：这是贝佐斯出人意料的让步。总的来说，这些公司基本上都认为不良事件是例外。他们的总体目标是让用户满意。现在我们要等待委员会公布最终调查结果，看看委员会想法为何。

GREENE: NPR's Alina Selyukh. Thanks, Alina.

格林：以上是NPR新闻的艾丽娜·塞尔约克带来的报道。谢谢你，艾丽娜。

SELYUKH: Thank you.

塞尔约克：谢谢。