PBS高端访谈:共和党人"倒戈"支持民主党候选人拜登（在线收听）

JUDY WOODRUFF: Last night's Democratic Convention featured Republicans who will vote for Joe Biden in the election, including John Kasich, the former governor of Ohio, and 2016 Republican presidential candidate. Some Republican groups are going further, supporting a Democratic candidate in ways never seen before. Our John Yang has the story.

朱迪·伍德乐夫：在昨晚的民主党全国代表大会上，一些将在选举中投票支持乔·拜登的共和党人成了焦点，其中包括俄亥俄州前州长、2016年共和党总统候选人约翰·卡西奇。此外还有一些共和党团体越走越远，以前所未有的方式支持民主党候选人。约翰·杨为我们报道。

DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States: We want to get our schools open.

唐纳德·特朗普，美国总统：我们想开放学校。

JOHN YANG: With slick ads, viral tweets and op-ed columns...

约翰·杨：用巧妙的广告，病毒式的推文和专栏……

MARCHERS: Jews will not replace us!

游行者：犹太人不会取代我们的！

NARRATOR: America is better than Donald Trump.

叙述者：美国比唐纳德·特朗普强。

JOHN YANG: New conservative groups are organizing to support an unlikely candidate, former Vice President Joe Biden. Rosario Marin was U.S. treasurer in the George W. Bush administration. Now she's a member of the group 43 Alumni for Biden. She says backing a Democrat over a sitting Republican president was difficult.

约翰·杨：新的保守派组织正在筹划支持一个希望并不大的候选人——前副总统乔·拜登。罗萨里奥·马林曾是乔治·w·布什政府的财政部长，现在是“拜登43校友组织”的成员。她说，支持一个民主党人打败一个在位的共和党总统是很困难的。

ROSARIO MARIN, 43 Alumni for Biden: Prior to him, I had been to five Republican Conventions as a delegate. I have been a spokesperson to five Republican presidential candidates. But I couldn't do it for him, and I certainly couldn't do it now. To then go that other step, to go out and vote for a Democrat, it is painful.

罗萨里奥·马林，拜登的43位校友：在他(拜登)之前，我作为代表参加了五次共和党全国代表大会，我曾经是五位共和党总统候选人的发言人，但是我无法为他(特朗普)投票，现在肯定是不可能的，所以我只能另做打算，转而去支持民主党，把票投给民主党，这很痛苦！

JOHN YANG: Another group, The Lincoln Project, is known for its ads targeting President Trump.

约翰·杨：另一个组织“林肯计划”，以其针对特朗普总统的广告而著称。

NARRATOR: What does it say that he won't condemn the flag of hate?

叙述者：他说什么不会谴责仇恨之旗？

JOHN YANG: Political consultant Reed Galen is a co-founder.

约翰·杨：政治顾问里德·盖伦是联合创始人。

REED GALEN, Co-Founder, The Lincoln Project: When we put out the Trump is not well advertisement about his shuffle down the ramp at West Point, it clearly pierced his bubble of unreality that he continually lives in. And I think that's been our greatest contribution, is pushing him back on his heels, keeping him back on his heels.

里德·盖伦，林肯项目联合创始人：当我们推出“特朗普不好”的广告来宣传他从西点军校的坡道上蹒跚而下时，它显然穿透了他一直生活在其中的虚幻泡沫，我认为这是我们最大的贡献，就是把他拉回原地，让他回到原地。

JOHN YANG: On Twitter, President Trump called them "a group of Republicans in name only who failed badly 12 years ago, then again eight years ago, and then got badly beaten by me, a political first-timer, four years ago."

约翰·杨：特朗普总统在推特上称他们是“一群12年前惨败、8年前又惨败、4年前又惨败在我这个政治新手下的共和党人。”

NARRATOR: They chose Trump.

叙述者：他们选择了特朗普。

JOHN YANG: But Galen says the group's goals are wider than just getting under the president's skin.

约翰·杨：但是盖伦表示，该组织的目标远不止于成为总统的代言人。

NARRATOR: Remember their actions.

叙述者：记住他们的所作所为。

JOHN YANG: They are also challenging senators who support the president.

约翰·杨：他们也在挑战支持总统的参议员。

REED GALEN: These folks have violated their oaths. They have abdicated their responsibilities as an Article 1 body in the United States Senate. And they have really forsaken any conservative values to support Donald Trump.

里德·盖伦：这些人违背了他们的誓言，他们放弃了作为美国参议院第1条机构的职责，他们抛弃了所有的保守价值观来支持唐纳德·特朗普。

JOHN YANG: The group plans to organize in the battleground states of Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, Arizona, North Carolina, and Florida.

约翰·杨：该组织计划在威斯康辛、密歇根、俄亥俄、亚利桑那、北卡罗莱纳和佛罗里达等摇摆州组织活动。

MAN: I'm tired of being embarrassed.

男子：我厌倦了尴尬。

WOMAN: I have been riddled with guilt.

女子：我一直内疚不已。

WOMAN: I am ashamed to this day of voting for him.

女子：我至今都为投票给他(特朗普)而感到羞愧。

JOHN YANG: Another group, Republican Voters Against Trump, is also targeting battleground states, collecting testimonials from GOP voters disenchanted with the president. Conservative activist Sarah Longwell is one of the co-founders.

约翰·杨：另一个名为“反对特朗普的共和党选民”的组织也将目标放在了摇摆州，从对总统不抱幻想的共和党选民那里收集证词，保守派活动家萨拉·朗威尔是联合创始人之一。

SARAH LONGWELL, Co-Founder, Republican Voters Against Trump: People really don't like political ads. But what they're…really find persuasive are actually real stories. I have been conducting focus groups for the last three years with what I would call reluctant Trump voters. Those people now are very, very clearly have seen that Donald Trump is not fit for the moment, that he is not the right person to steward the country through compounding crises, a health crisis, an economic crisis, a racial crisis.

莎拉·朗威尔，“反对特朗普的共和党选民”联合创始人：人们真的不喜欢政治广告，他们觉得真正有说服力的是真实的故事。过去三年里，我一直在组织一些焦点小组，我把这些人称为“不情愿的特朗普选民”，他们现在已经非常、非常清楚地看到唐纳德·特朗普胜任不了这个职位，他不是领导美国度过各种危机的合适人选，比如健康危机、经济危机、种族危机。

JOHN YANG: But will these Republican-led efforts actually win Biden any votes? Republican pollster Jon McHenry is skeptical.

约翰·杨：但是，这些由共和党人所做的努力真的会为拜登赢得选票吗？共和党民调专家乔恩·麦克亨利对此表示怀疑。

JON MCHENRY, Republican Pollster: We have already seen a lot of those folks who would have been inclined to go away from Republicans, go away from this president have already done so. So I don't know that there's a lot to work with there for them.

共和党民意测验专家乔恩·麦克亨利：我们可以看到，很多之前倾向于放弃共和党、离开这位总统(特朗普)的人现在已经这么做了，但是我觉得他们还有很多工作要做。

JOHN YANG: McHenry also points to Mr. Trump's strong approval rating among Republican voters, hovering around 90 percent even during the pandemic. The president says there's more enthusiasm for him than there was in 2016.

约翰·杨：麦克亨利还指出，特朗普在共和党选民中的支持率很高，即使新冠期间也徘徊在90%左右。总统表示人们对他的热情超过了2016年。

DONALD TRUMP: I think we're doing very well in the polls. And I think you have a silent majority, the likes of which this country has never seen before. This is a very important election. We have done a great job.

唐纳德·特朗普：我想我们在民意调查方面做得很好，我觉得有很大一部分人在保持沉默，这是在美国从未见过的，这是一次非常重要的选举，我们做得很棒。

JOHN YANG: But all three anti-Trump groups say the Democratic nominee presents a unique opportunity.

约翰·杨：不过，这三个反特朗普组织都表示民主党候选人提供了一个独特的机会。

SARAH LONGWELL: One of the most common responses I get in the focus groups to why did you vote for Donald Trump in 2016 is, people say: I didn't vote for Donald Trump. I voted against Hillary Clinton. And so it's hard to overstate how much of a difference it makes having Joe Biden as the nominee, as opposed to Hillary Clinton.

莎拉·朗威尔：我在焦点小组中了解到，关于“你为什么会在2016年投票给唐纳德·特朗普”这个问题最常见的回答是，人们说：我没有投票给唐纳德·特朗普，我只是投票反对希拉里·克林顿。所以，乔·拜登作为提名人与希拉里·克林顿相比其差异是很大的。

ROSARIO MARIN: I'm going to vote for Joe Biden because whatever I may disagree with him in his policies, I know he knows government. He has been there a long time. He knows how to govern. He knows what he can do and what he cannot do.

罗萨里奥·马林：我将投票给乔·拜登，因为，即使我对他的政策有不同意见，但是我知道他了解政府，他在政府已经待了很久了，他知道如何治理国家，他知道自己能做什么、不能做什么。

JOHN YANG: And you still consider yourself a Republican?

约翰·杨：那么你还认为自己是共和党人吗？

ROSARIO MARIN: Yes, a true Republican, a true Republican. I don't know what this guy is.

罗萨里奥·马林：是的，货真价实的共和党人，货真价实的共和党人，虽然我不知道他(共产党人)是谁。

JOHN YANG: For the PBS NewsHour, I'm John Yang.

约翰·杨：这里是“PBS新闻一小时”，我是约翰·杨。