美国国家公共电台 NPR 拜登继特朗普之后到访基诺沙市 与遭警察枪击非裔男子通话（在线收听）

Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden went to Kenosha, Wis., today. Biden and his wife met with the family of Jacob Blake, the Black man whose shooting by police nearly two weeks ago sparked unrest there. It was two days ago that President Trump visited the area, celebrating law enforcement and highlighting the violence and property destruction that came in the wake of protests in Kenosha. Trump also downplayed issues of systemic racism, which was much of Biden's focus today.

美国民主党总统候选人乔·拜登今天前往威斯康星州基诺沙市。拜登和妻子与雅各布·布莱克的家人见了面，布莱克是在近两周前遭警察枪击的黑人男子，这起事件引发了当地的骚乱。两天前，特朗普总统也访问了该地区，他表扬了执法部门，并强调了基诺沙市抗议所引发的暴力事件和财产破坏现象。特朗普还淡化了系统性种族主义问题，而这正是拜登今天之行的重点。

NPR political correspondent Asma Khalid is travelling with Biden and joins us now from Milwaukee, where she is currently on a campaign bus. Hi, Asma.

NPR新闻的政治记者阿斯玛·哈利德正在随拜登出访，现在她将从密尔沃基与我们连线，她现在在竞选大巴上。你好，阿斯玛。

ASMA KHALID, BYLINE: Hi there.

阿斯玛·哈利德连线：你好。

PFEIFFER: Asma, would you tell us more about what Joe Biden has been doing in Kenosha today?

菲佛：阿斯玛，请详细介绍一下乔·拜登今天在基诺沙的行程。

KHALID: Yeah. You know, as you mentioned, Sacha, he met with members of Jacob Blake's family. He also was on the phone with Jacob Blake himself, who joined from a hospital bed. And we were told that they prayed together, and one of the attorneys said that they did discuss issues of, you know, police interactions with minority communities. It is worth noting, Sacha, that when Donald Trump was here a couple of days ago, he did not meet with any members of Blake's family. His message really primarily focused on law and order.

哈利德：好。萨夏，如你所说，他与雅各布·布莱克的家人进行了会面。他还与病床上的雅各布·布莱克本人通了电话。我们了解到，他们一起祈祷，一名律师表示，他们讨论了警察与少数族裔社区的沟通问题。萨夏，值得注意的是，唐纳德·特朗普几天前访问该地区时，并没有与布莱克的任何家人见面。他传达的信息主要集中在法律与秩序上。

PFEIFFER: And President Trump has been aggressive about that law and order message. You know, he's been telling voters they would be unsafe if Biden is elected. How did Biden push back on that claim today?

菲佛：特朗普总统在法律与秩序方面的言论一直非常强硬。他一直在告诉选民，如果拜登当选总统，那他们会非常不安全。拜登今天如何反驳这种说法？

KHALID: Yeah, that's right. That has been a real big focus of President Trump's recently. And, you know, Joe Biden mentioned a story about some of the president's remarks after the incident in Charlottesville, Va., a couple of years ago, where the president referred to very fine people on both sides. And this is how Joe Biden sees that rhetoric.

哈利德：没错。这是特朗普总统最近的主要焦点。乔·拜登提到了总统几年前在弗吉尼亚州夏洛茨维尔事件后所发表的讲话，当时总统说双方都有不错的人。下面来听一下拜登是如何看待这一言论的。

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JOE BIDEN: It's not all his fault, but it legitimizes. It legitimizes a dark side of human nature.

乔·拜登：这不全是他的错，但使它合理化了。这使人性的黑暗面合法化。

KHALID: And, Sacha, you know, he referred to the fact that he felt like the president has enabled some of the behavior that has sprung up in communities like Kenosha afterwards. You know, it's worth pointing out that, as you mentioned, President Trump has really tried to suggest that Joe Biden is weak when it comes to issues of public safety. Biden, for his part, did reiterate today that he sees no place for rioting and looting and burning and none of that behavior is justifiable. But at the community meeting where we were, you know, we were told a couple of members of law enforcement were present, to my knowledge, they didn't hear any police officers speak. And you can imagine this is going to be a theme that President Trump tries to continue to hit Joe Biden on.

哈利德：萨夏，他提到了一个事实，他认为是总统导致了基诺沙等社区在后来出现这种行为。值得指出的是，如你所说，特朗普总统试图暗示乔·拜登在公共安全问题方面很软弱。但拜登今天重申，他认为暴乱、抢劫、焚烧没有立足之地，这些行为都是不正当的行为。但在社区会议上，我们了解到有几名执法人员出席了会议，但据我所知，当时警察没有任何表态。你可以想象，这将成为特朗普总统试图继续抨击乔·拜登的一个主题。

PFEIFFER: Asma, Wisconsin is obviously a crucial swing state in this year's election. It's where Hillary Clinton famously, maybe infamously, never went during the general election in 2016. Now, due to the coronavirus, Biden has mostly been staying close to his home in Delaware. So how much, if at all, can we interpret today's trip as a sign of urgency from the Biden campaign to get out more?

菲佛：阿斯玛，显然威斯康星州是今年大选的关键摇摆州。众所周知，希拉里·克林顿在2016年大选期间从未去过该州，这件事可能饱受诟病。现在，由于疫情的影响，拜登大部分时间都在其家乡特拉华州附近活动。那我们能在多大程度上，将今天这一行程解读为拜登竞选团队希望走出去的迫切感？

KHALID: Oh, Sacha, I think it very much suggests this level of urgency. Make no doubt this trip was taking place to deal with the racial tensions, specifically in Kenosha. But there was very much an underlying tone that this is a campaign trip. There was a point at the end of this community meeting where Joe Biden laid out the fear that some folks in underprivileged communities feel and his fear about, you know, not turning out to vote.

哈利德：哦，萨夏，我认为这很能说明迫切程度。毫无疑问，这一行程是为了应对种族紧张局势，尤其是基诺沙市的局势。但潜台词是，这也是竞选之旅。社区会议临近尾声时，乔·拜登提到了贫困社区民众的恐惧以及他对人们不参加投票的担心。

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BIDEN: People are going to be so frustrated, particularly in the communities that need the help the most, need to be treated most clearly. They're going to say, it's not worth it at all. I'm not going to vote. A guy was a very good friend of mine, talked to him two days before he died — John Lewis. As John said, the only answer is to vote.

拜登：人们会非常失望，尤其是最需要帮助、需要得到最明确对待的社区。他们会说，这根本不值得。我不会去投票。约翰·刘易斯是我的好朋友，他去世前两天我和他交谈过。约翰说，唯一的答案就是投票。

KHALID: And, Sacha, there was this local stop later in the afternoon here in Wisconsin. And Joe Biden, as he was walking out of it, was greeted by a number of supporters. And he turned around to say don't forget to vote. You know, this is a common theme for Democrats. And the former vice president will be getting out more on the campaign trail. That's what he has said, and we have got word from his campaign that he intends to be in Michigan next week.

哈利德：萨夏，下午晚些时候，拜登在威斯康星州有个行程。乔·拜登走出来时，受到了多名支持者的欢迎。他转身说，别忘了投票。这是民主党的共同主题。前副总统拜登将开展更多竞选活动。他是这样说的，而且他的竞选团队说，他计划下周前往密歇根州。

PFEIFFER: That's NPR's Asma Khalid traveling with the Biden campaign in Wisconsin. Asma, thank you.

菲佛：以上是随拜登竞选团队活动的NPR新闻记者阿斯玛·哈利德从威斯康星州带来的报道。阿斯玛，谢谢你。

KHALID: You're welcome.

哈利德：不客气。