时代周刊:前情报长官提醒大家警惕特朗普主义的危险性(3)（在线收听）

Clapper, for his part, has been accused by Republicans and Democrats of lying about the extent of NSA surveillance under the Patriot Act.

克拉珀则受到了民共两党的指责，理由是他没有如实交代《爱国者法案》规定的NSA的监控范围。

Hayden says he should be given credit for the desire to bring the interrogation program before Congress.

海登说，他希望将审讯计划提交国会，他的这一想法应该得到肯定。

“I was doing the best I can with a complex program that I didn’t start or run,” he says.

“计划很复杂，而且启动和负责的人都不是我，我已经尽力了，”他说。

Clapper says he misunderstood a Senator’s question during testimony.

克拉珀说，他在作证时误解了一名参议员的提问。

“It was at the end of a 2.5-hour threat hearing,” he says.

“那时，为期2个半小时的威胁听证会都快结束了，”他说。

“So, yes, I regret that. But it was a mistake, not a lie. There’s a big difference.”

“总之，是的，我很后悔。但那只是个误会，并非谎言。二者是有很大区别的。”

What is clear in retrospect is that by 2016, Americans’ faith in their spies was shaky at best.

回过头来看，有一点是很清楚的，那就是，到2016年，美国民众对情报部门的信心不说荡然无存，充其量也只能说是摇摇欲坠了。

Hayden and Clapper see that as the result of a larger crisis in America.

海登和克拉珀认为，这是更广泛的危机引起的结果。

Clapper argues in his book Facts and Fears that the expansion of economic inequality after the Cold War

克拉珀在其著作《事实与恐惧》中指出，冷战后经济不平等差距的扩大

fueled what he calls “unpredictable instability” for many Americans.

助长了他所谓的“无法预见的不稳定性”，而许多美国民众都受到了这一不稳定性的影响。

The financial crisis that began in 2007, he says, further drove resentment and distrust.

他还表示，2007年爆发的金融危机进一步加深了民众的怨恨和不信任。

In The Assault on Intelligence, Hayden says a combination of increased political polarization,

海登则在《攻讦情报》一书中表示，致使我们落入今天这步田地的是政治两极化的加剧，

fueled by the self-sorting world of the Internet, is what has brought us to this point.

还有自分类的互联网的煽风点火。

But it was the Russian operation against the 2016 election that revealed the extent of the problem, Clapper and Hayden agree.

然而，克拉珀和海登一致认为，真正揭示出问题严重性的是2016年俄罗斯干预美国大选一事。

“The Russians, to their credit, capitalized on the polarization and the schisms and the tribalisms in this country,” says Clapper.

“俄罗斯一方，为了自身利益，在美国两极分化、内部分裂和部落化之际趁火打劫，”克拉珀说道。

By flooding social media with divisive propaganda and meddling with U.S. state and local election systems,

通过在社交媒体上散布分裂性的宣传，通过干预美国各州和地方的选举系统，

the Russians undermined faith in the democratic process.

俄方破坏了民众对美国民主进程的信心。

“To me, the most damaging and threatening thing that they do is to cast doubt on what’s truth,” Clapper says.

“在我看来，他们做出的最具破坏性也最具威胁性的行为就是让美国民众对真相产生了质疑，”克拉珀说。

Moscow wins, he says, when people ask: “Is truth even knowable?”

他说，当人们开始问：“真相究竟可知与否？”时，莫斯科就赢了。

TRUMP IS DOING THE SAME THING, the former spy chiefs say.

特朗普的行为和俄罗斯并无两样，两名前情报官员表示。

“We live in a post-truth environment,” says Hayden, “and he quite cleverly identified that as a candidate,

“我们生活在一个后真相的社会，”海登说，“作为总统候选人时，特朗普就非常聪明地发现了这一点，

and now he worsens it as President by some of what he does and a lot of what he says.”

如今，就任总统后的他做出的部分行为，以及发出的很多言论都加重了这一问题的严重性。”

Trump’s rallies, says Clapper, “are really scary to me, because he goes so far afield of the truth.”

克拉珀说，特朗普集会“让我感觉很可怕，因为他脱离真相脱离地太远了。”

The two men are particularly aware of how Trump has undermined the intelligence community.

两人对特朗普如何削弱情报界这一问题的了解尤其透彻。

As the Russian operation came to light during the campaign,

随着俄罗斯在美国大选期间的动作逐渐曝光，

Trump mercilessly attacked American spies and called into question their warnings.

特朗普对美国情报界发起了无情的攻击，还对他们的警告提出了质疑。

When it became clear that Russia had actively tried to help Trump win the election, he compared U.S. intelligence officials to Nazis.

俄罗斯积极帮助特朗普争取大选胜利的事实变得明朗后，特朗普甚至还将美国的情报官员比作纳粹。

“He has besmirched the Intelligence community and the FBI—pillars of our country—

“他玷污了情报机关，也玷污了联邦调查局——二者均为我国的支柱——

and deliberately incited many Americans to lose faith and confidence in them,” Clapper writes.

还故意煽动许多美国民众对他们不再抱有信念和信心，”克拉珀写道。

More worrying, Clapper and Hayden say, is how Trump is undermining the very system of constraints

更令人担忧的是，克拉珀和海登表示，特朗普严重破坏了

that was instituted after Watergate to prevent abuse by the intelligence services.

水门事件后为防止情报机构滥用职权而设立的制衡体系。

Among his most florid attacks was the false allegation that the Obama Administration illegally wiretapped Trump Tower during the election.

他最激烈的攻击之一就是提出了错误的指控，称奥巴马政府在大选期间非法窃听特朗普大厦。

In fact, the FBI legally obtained eavesdropping warrants from a special court

事实上，联邦调查局通过合法途径从某特别法庭处取得了窃听令，

that requires evidence that the target is acting on behalf of a foreign power.

而该法庭需要有证据表明窃听目标是在代表外国势力行事才会颁布窃听许可。