华盛顿邮报 美对俄富豪的经济制裁可能会起反作用（在线收听）

It is worth noting that a lot of these people -- I mean, not only are they rich people in Russia who are supporters of the Kremlin, but a lot of them go back with Putin for decades.

值得注意的是，这些人中的很多人——我的意思是，他们不仅是俄罗斯的富人，是克里姆林宫的支持者，而且他们中的很多人在普京身边待了几十年。

Igor Sechin, one of the people on the E.U. sanction list who, I imagine -- I don't have any information about this, but I imagine will likely be looked at by the U.S.

伊戈尔·谢钦，他是欧盟制裁名单上的人之一，我想——我没有这方面的任何信息，但我想他可能会受到美国的调查。

His connections with Putin date to the 1990s.

他与普京的关系可以追溯到20世纪90年代。

He was the deputy head of Putin's administration for a number of years, and they're friends.

他曾担任普京政府的副首脑多年，他们是朋友。

So, you know, those kinds of connections are what the U.S. is going to be trying to be targeting.

所以，你知道，这种联系正是美国想要瞄准的目标。

Some of the billionaires have already come out and said, "We're against the war. Please don't sanction us."

一些亿万富翁已经站出来说:“我们反对战争。 请不要制裁我们。”

The U.S. has often ignored those comments, but it really is anyone's guess the extent to which this will shift policy in the Kremlin.

美国通常对这些言论不予理睬，但这将在多大程度上改变克里姆林宫的政策，谁也说不准。

Has something like this been done before, leveraging sanctions against a specific individual?

这样的事情以前做过吗-对特定的个人施加制裁?

And when these things happen, do the people sanctioning get the results they want?

当这些事情发生时，实施制裁的人得到他们想要的结果了吗?

You know, one of the sanctions experts I spoke to, Adam Smith, who was a former Obama administration official, made the point to me that sometimes the sanctions have the opposite of the intended effect, right?

你知道，我采访过的一位制裁专家，亚当·斯密，他曾是奥巴马政府的一名官员，他向我指出，有时制裁会产生与预期效果相反的效果，对吧?

You think that what you're doing is deterring these oligarchs from supporting Putin,

你认为你所做的是防止这些寡头支持普京,

but in some ways, if they make the U.S. seem like the bad guy,

但在某些方面，如果他们让美国看起来像个坏蛋，

they could actually drive potential sources of defection into Putin's arms by giving them a reason to hate the U.S., sort of feeling the U.S. and its allies are treating them unfairly.

它们实际上可能会推动这些寡头倒戈进入普京的怀抱，给他们一个憎恨美国的理由，让他们感觉美国及其盟友对他们不公平。

You know, we will have to see.

你知道，我们得等着瞧。

I mean, there are a lot of humanitarian sanctions that have had devastating impacts in other countries in different periods of time,

我的意思是，有很多人道主义制裁在不同的时期对其他国家产生了毁灭性的影响，

and there are legitimate questions about the extent to which the U.S. sanctions on Russia will do that.

美国对俄罗斯的制裁会在多大程度上达到这一目的，这是合理的问题。

We've seen reports of, you know, in the '90s, tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of civilians were killed by the U.S. sanctions of Saddam Hussein before the invasion.

我们已经看到报道，在90年代，美国入侵前对萨达姆·侯赛因实施制裁，导致数万甚至数十万平民死亡。

We're seeing an extremely dangerous situation in Afghanistan, where sanctions have been leading to a likely humanitarian crisis.

我们看到阿富汗的局势非常危险，制裁可能导致人道主义危机。

The sanctions on the oligarchs and the freezing of their overseas assets does appear to be a different category.

对寡头的制裁和冻结他们的海外资产似乎是另一种类型的制裁。

It's going after these rich guys with tons of assets, tons of liquidity, even in Russia, that they will be okay.

制裁是针对这些富人，他们拥有大量资产，大量流动资产，即使在俄罗斯，他们也会没事的。

And so the humanitarian costs of these particular sanctions may be not so great, but the overall U.S. strategy to cripple the Russian economy, you know, could do a lot of damage on a lot of innocent people.

因此，这些制裁的人道主义代价可能不是很大，但美国削弱俄罗斯经济的整体战略，可能会对很多无辜的人造成很大的伤害。

Obviously, the need to do so, based on the invasion of Ukraine and the need to strike back at Russia, may overpower that.

显然，基于入侵乌克兰和反击俄罗斯的需要，这样做的必要性可能会胜过这一点。