华盛顿邮报 取得胜利后的亚马逊工会将面临哪些挑战?(3)（在线收听）

How has Amazon responded to accusations about their efforts to undermine unions?

亚马逊如何回应有关他们破坏工会的指控？

This is what the Amazon spokeswoman said to me in a statement.

这是亚马逊发言人在一份声明中对我说的。

"It's up to the workers whether they want to unionize. It's their choice. We want them to be able to choose."

“这取决于工人们是否愿意成立工会。这是他们的选择。我们希望他们能够选择。”

You know, I take that with a grain of salt.

你知道，我对此持怀疑态度。

I mean, they were paying -- Anti-union consultants were getting paid as much as $3,200 a day for a single consultant.

我是说，他们正在付钱--一名反工会顾问一天的报酬高达3200美元。

And so if you're paying someone $3,200 a day, you really don't want a union. You don't want the workers to unionize.

如果你付给某人每天3200美元的工资，那么你真的不想要工会。你不会希望工人们成立工会的。

Whoa! So it sounds like there was a lot piled up against Chris.

哇哦！听起来有很多加起来对克里斯不利。

But even so, he was successful at getting enough workers on board to vote to unionize at this first warehouse.

但即便如此，他成功地让足够多的工人投票赞成在第一个仓库成立工会。

What was his strategy to do that? And what made it work?

他这样做的策略是什么？是什么让这个策略起作用了？

So, I think the biggest thing he did and the smartest thing he did was just set up outside the factory.

我认为他做的最大的事情和最聪明的事情就是在工厂外成立工会。

So he -- Because he was fired and was no longer an Amazon employee, he wasn't allowed on their property.

因为他被解雇了，不再是亚马逊的员工，他不被允许进入他们的领地。

But there's a bus stop right across from the warehouse where he was fired, literally right across the street.

但在他被解雇的仓库对面有一个公交车站，就在街对面。

So he set up at that bus stop, he put up a tent, and he was there, gosh, you know, 11, 12 hours a day for the better part of 11 months, just constantly there.

他在那个公交站成立工会，搭起帐篷，天哪，你知道，在11个月的大部分时间里，他每天都在那里呆上11到12个小时，一直呆在那里。

And if he wasn't there, other people from his movement were there.

如果他不在那里，他领导的运动中的其他人也在那里。

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, enjoy.

哦，是。哦，是，好好享受吧。

They're grilling, they're playing music, passing out free weed sometimes.

他们在烧烤，他们在放音乐，有时还会分发免费的大麻。

And I think the goal of all of that was to build a culture and a community which didn't exist in that Amazon warehouse, you know, where your every move is surveilled, where there's constant turnover, there's no sense of community, there's no sense of workforce.

我认为所有这些的目标是建立一种文化和社区，这在亚马逊的仓库里是不存在的，你知道，在那里你的一举一动都被监视，有持续的人员流动，没有社区意识，没有劳动力意识。

So he was going to build that at the bus stop, a sense of, you know, "Who we are as part of the Amazon labor union."

他打算在公共汽车站建立工会，一种“作为亚马逊工会的一部分，我们是谁”的感觉。

And, you know, one interesting thing about Chris is, he's a former rapper, musician, so he used to put on his own shows.

而且，关于克里斯的一件有趣的事情是，他以前是一名说唱歌手和音乐人，所以他过去经常举办自己的节目。

I mean, the organizing he would do would be to throw house parties and get people to come to his concerts. And that's a form of organizing in itself.

他所做的组织工作将是举办家庭聚会，让人们来听他的演唱会。这本身就是一种组织形式。

You're trying to get people to come to something.

你在试着让人们去做一些事情。

You're trying to get people to buy into something.

你在试图让人们相信一些东西。

And so he was really good at that. I don't think he had done anything political at all.

所以他真的很擅长这一点。我认为他根本没有做过任何政治上的事情。