华盛顿邮报 巴西重现“国会山”暴乱 (3)（在线收听）

    So, Anthony, we've been talking about this attack in Brazil, and there does appear to be many parallels between what happened this past weekend and what happened in the United States on January 6, 2021.

    安东尼，我们一直在谈论巴西的这次袭击，上周末巴西发生的事情似乎与2021年1月6日美国发生的事情有很多相似之处。

    What are those parallels? And how are these events different in any way?

    这两件事有什么相似之处? 又有什么不同?

    Well, I mean, they're different in the sense that, as of now, we're not aware of any deaths that happened yesterday.

    我的意思是，这两件事的不同之处在于，到目前为止，我们还不知道昨天发生的事件有人遇难。

    And, of course, we did have five deaths in the immediate aftermath of the January 6, 2021, insurrection in the United States.

    当然，美国2021年1月6日发生暴动后，确实有5人遇难。

    But, you know, in other ways, there's also remarkable similarity.

    在其他方面，这两件事也惊人地相似。

    And the similarities come partly in the nature of the people who were conducting these riots, right?

    发动暴乱者的性质在某种程度上很相似，对吧?

    Like, you know, the Trump backers who conducted the assault on the Capitol, the Bolsonaristas here are driven by conspiracy theories.

    比如，特朗普的支持者发动了对国会大厦的袭击，博尔索纳罗支持者被阴谋论所驱使。

    They are driven by grievances that have been fueled by, you know, in this case, Bolsonaro, you know, this sense of grievance that the election was stolen from them, that there was fraud in the election.

    他们被不满情绪驱使着，在巴西，博尔索纳罗加剧了这种不满情绪，他们认为选举被偷走了，选举存在舞弊。

    And these are all thoughts that have, you know, fueled these people and made them believe that their country was being stolen and taken away from them.

    所有这些想法点燃了这些人的不满情绪，让他们相信他们的国家正在被偷走，从他们身边被夺走。

    But there's no basis in fact for any of this.

    但这一切都没有事实依据。

    They have also clung to conspiracy theories that yesterday was going to be the day that the military intervened and arrested Lula and et cetera, et cetera.

    他们还坚持阴谋论，认为昨天是军方介入并逮捕卢拉的日子，等等。

    None of that appears to have been based in fact.

    所有这些似乎都没有事实依据。

    Again, they're being fed information on Telegram, Twitter, et cetera, you know, other, you know, sort of insular social-media apps where they're sort of basically regurgitating all of these falsehoods and false narratives that have been circulating around since Election Day.

    他们又在Telegram、推特等社交媒体上被灌输信息，以及在其他一些独立的社交媒体应用程序上，基本上是在重复所有这些谎言和虚假言论，这些不实说法自选举日以来一直在流传。

    Bolsonaro has fed into this by refusing to recognize the results.

    博尔索纳罗拒绝承认选举结果，也提供了这样的信息。

    You know, I think that's one reason why moderates in Brazil are porting the direction to him for creating this situation and creating an environment of such polarization and unreality -- right?

    我认为这就是为什么巴西的温和派人士将矛头转向他，因为他制造了这种情况，创造了一个如此两极分化和不现实的环境，对吧？

    -- where these people no longer can separate fact from fiction. And we can see how that can lead to violence.

    --在这样的环境下，这些人再也无法区分事实和虚构。我们能看到这是如何导致暴力行动的。

    Yeah, clearly, there are these, like, very stark similarities.

    是的，很明显，有很多明显的相似之处。

    I'm also just reflecting back to the Capitol insurrection in the United States.

    我刚刚回顾起了美国的国会大厦暴动事件。

    It felt like a wake-up call for many people in the United States, the takeaway being democracy in the country is way more fragile than people realized.

    这对许多美国人来说就像是敲响了警钟，这个国家的民主比人们意识到的要脆弱得多。

    It was this unprecedented event that happened as lawmakers were trying to carry out the certification of the presidential election and carry out democracy.

    这是在国会议员试图确认总统选举结果和推行民主之际发生的史无前例的事件。