美国国家公共电台 NPR--Zelenskyy aims to shore up support with White House, Congress and American people

Zelenskyy aims to shore up support with White House, Congress and American people

Transcript¹

NPR's A Martinez talks to Richard Haass, president of the Council on Foreign Relations, about what President Zelenskyy's visit to Washington means for the war in Ukraine and U.S.-Ukrainian relations.

A MART?NEZ, HOST:

Let's go now to Richard Haass. For the last 20 years, he's led the nonpartisan Council on Foreign Relations. Richard, so apart from making this in-person appeal for more military support, what do you think President Zelenskyy hopes to gain from this visit?

RICHARD HAASS: Probably two things. He wants to shore up Ukraine support in the Congress, above all with the Republicans who will soon be taking over the House; more broadly, with the American people. This war has not really resonated deeply, for example, in our recent midterm elections. Virtually no one was voting on the basis of the war. And then secondly³, he wants to push President Biden and the administration to be more forthcoming in providing certain types of weapons systems, above all, longer range missiles and the like, that can attack Russian forces anywhere in Ukraine or even in Russia.

MART?NEZ: So let's take that apart for a second. The two parts of - the first part of your answer when it comes to trying to appeal to the incoming Congress, how do you think he's going to do that? What do you think he's going to say, considering that Kevin McCarthy, who wants to be the next House speaker, has already said no blank check for Ukraine?

HAASS: Well, again, I think there's a majority of Republicans who support the - our support for Ukraine, as do the overwhelming majority of Democrats⁵. He's not going to win over the far right, which has these odd pro-Russian tendencies. But I think he'll wrap himself in everything from Churchill-like rhetoric⁶. This is very consistent with American values. I think he will argue, more than anything else, he is not just fighting for Ukraine. He is fighting for the United States, for our values, for democracy and for our security. I think that will be his argument.

MART?NEZ: And so that can be wrapped up with the message for the American people. Because it sounds like it's going to be one and the same.

HAASS: Absolutely. And the idea that - you know, I think there's a view in both - in parts of both parties that somehow what we do in foreign policy is taken out of the account that ought to be dedicated⁷ to domestic challenges. And what I think Zelenskyy is going to try to do is say that's not the right way to look at it. What you do in the way of providing security and stability in the world is good for you Americans here at home.

MART?NEZ: Why do you think the Biden administration has been reluctant to send Volodymyr Zelenskyy long-range and offensive weapons for the war?

HAASS: The Biden administration's been trying to thread a needle from the get-go. How do we support Ukraine? How do we support the norm? The territory is not to be acquired by force, which is what Russia is all about. At the same time, how do we avoid triggering some larger conflict with Russia? And that's what this is all about. We want to give Ukraine enough to defend itself. We want to make sure Vladimir Putin does not succeed in extinguishing Ukraine's sovereignty and independence. But the Biden administration from the outset has been wary⁸, to use President Biden's language, about starting World War III. And that's the balance they've been trying to achieve here. It's the reason, for example, we ourselves are not involved in the war directly but only indirectly⁹ through arms sales (inaudible).

MART?NEZ: President Biden, though, yeah, he's vowed¹⁰ to continue to support Ukraine as long as Russia continues their war. Considering the new makeup¹¹ of the Congress, I mean, how will he be able to deliver on that?

HAASS: Well, again, I'm not worried about that. I think that - I think, you know, Vladimir Putin bit wrong in several ways, not only overestimating¹² his own armed forces, but I think he underestimated Ukraine. He underestimated Europe. And he underestimated the United States. You know, this is not Afghanistan, whatever you thought about that. There is widespread support. For sure, there's going to be a couple of voices on both sides of the aisle¹³ who are going to oppose this for whatever set of reasons. But, again, I think we're pretty robust¹⁴ in our support. We're providing over a billion dollars a month in military aid, as well as a billion dollars a month in economic aid. And I believe that is - I believe that is sustainable.

MART?NEZ: So you mentioned Vladimir Putin. Ten months since Russia invaded Ukraine, he has not scored really quick or easy battlefield wins. What do you think he does next?

HAASS: He plays for time. Putin basically says he can keep Russia in the war. He controls the narrative¹⁵ pretty much at home. He's been able to live with sanctions, in some ways doing end runs around them, still selling his oil, for example, his gas, even though he lost some markets in Europe. And he basically saying, I want to break the back of Ukraine. That's why he's attacking all these civilian¹⁶ sites, electricity sites, water sites and so forth⁴. He wants Europe to get cold this winter, hoping that breaks the will of Europe. He wants the United States to get tired of the war, hoping these isolationist tendencies here at home prevail. So Putin feels that time is his friend. He just wants to hang in there long enough until he believes the tide will turn. It's our challenge to make sure that calculation proves wrong.

MART?NEZ: You know, I think with any war, we're always kind of looking to see where the motivation is for one side or the other to continue to fight. In this case, Richard, where do you think the motivation is for either side to compromise and to look for maybe some kind of peaceful resolution?

HAASS: I don't see it. In order for negotiations¹⁷ to succeed - and I've been involved in all sorts of negotiations as a former U.S. government official - you need the leadership of the various sides to be both willing and able - two important characteristics, willing and able - to compromise. I don't see either side as willing. Putin could compromise, I believe, if he wanted to, but he does not want Ukraine to succeed as a Western-oriented, market-oriented Slavic country. That sets an example he doesn't want to live with. He's worried he would look weak at home. So Putin wants to hang tough. Zelenskyy and the Ukrainians, 85% or more, they want every square inch of their country back, including Crimea, which Russia took in 2014. So at the moment, I don't think diplomats¹⁸, no matter how capable, have much of anything to work with.

MART?NEZ: Yeah. I suppose if, as Vladimir Putin said, that Ukraine doesn't really exist in his eyes, I guess that's not really much of a starting point.

HAASS: (Laughter) That's not exactly a precondition for successful diplomacy¹⁹, no.

MART?NEZ: Yeah. International sanctions, some of the toughest in history, have been put on Russia. I don't know if they've really made that much of a dent² in their resolve. Does the international community have any other ways or any other options that they - at their disposal right now?

HAASS: Now, first, your point is exactly right. We tend to exaggerate what sanctions can accomplish. Yes, they've taken some toll²⁰ on Russia's economy, but as we've seen in many cases, if governments are willing to pay a price, they'll just hang in there. And that's what's happening here. Plus, you can work around sanctions. Russia, for example, is selling a lot of oil and gas to places like China and India. The only thing we could do is continue to provide economic and military support to Ukraine to basically persuade Putin that time isn't on his side. And even that may not work. We may ultimately have to wait for new leadership in Russia to emerge, be it by natural or unnatural²¹ causes, because I don't see any sign that Vladimir Putin is prepared to compromise.

MART?NEZ: Richard, last thing really quick - it's been 10 months. How do you think the war has reshaped the international balance? How's the world different now?

HAASS: What the war has done is showed the continuing relevance²² and strength of alliances. It's showed that there still is a West and NATO against Russia, with Japan and other countries against China. That has been perhaps the most positive aspect of this war. At the same time, it's showing that war itself can still happen, which is anything but positive.

MART?NEZ: Richard Haass is the president of the Council on Foreign Relations. Richard, thanks.

HAASS: Thank you for having me.

1 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

2 dent   

n.凹痕，凹坑；初步进展

参考例句：

• I don't know how it came about but I've got a dent in the rear of my car.我不知道是怎么回事，但我的汽车后部有了一个凹痕。
• That dent is not big enough to be worth hammering out.那个凹陷不大，用不着把它锤平。

3 secondly   

adv.第二，其次

参考例句：

• Secondly,use your own head and present your point of view.第二，动脑筋提出自己的见解。
• Secondly it is necessary to define the applied load.其次，需要确定所作用的载荷。

4 forth   

adv.向前；向外，往外

参考例句：

• The wind moved the trees gently back and forth.风吹得树轻轻地来回摇晃。
• He gave forth a series of works in rapid succession.他很快连续发表了一系列的作品。

5 democrats   

n.民主主义者，民主人士( democrat的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• The Democrats held a pep rally on Capitol Hill yesterday. 民主党昨天在国会山召开了竞选誓师大会。
• The democrats organize a filibuster in the senate. 民主党党员组织了阻挠议事。 来自《简明英汉词典》

6 rhetoric   

n.修辞学，浮夸之言语

参考例句：

• Do you know something about rhetoric?你懂点修辞学吗？
• Behind all the rhetoric,his relations with the army are dangerously poised.在冠冕堂皇的言辞背后，他和军队的关系岌岌可危。

7 dedicated   

adj.一心一意的；献身的；热诚的

参考例句：

• He dedicated his life to the cause of education.他献身于教育事业。
• His whole energies are dedicated to improve the design.他的全部精力都放在改进这项设计上了。

8 wary   

adj.谨慎的，机警的，小心的

参考例句：

• He is wary of telling secrets to others.他谨防向他人泄露秘密。
• Paula frowned,suddenly wary.宝拉皱了皱眉头，突然警惕起来。

9 indirectly   

adv.间接地，不直接了当地

参考例句：

• I heard the news indirectly.这消息我是间接听来的。
• They were approached indirectly through an intermediary.通过一位中间人，他们进行了间接接触。

10 vowed   

起誓，发誓（vow的过去式与过去分词形式）

参考例句：

• He vowed quite solemnly that he would carry out his promise. 他非常庄严地发誓要实现他的诺言。
• I vowed to do more of the cooking myself. 我发誓自己要多动手做饭。

11 makeup   

n.组织；性格；化装品

参考例句：

• Those who failed the exam take a makeup exam.这次考试不及格的人必须参加补考。
• Do you think her beauty could makeup for her stupidity?你认为她的美丽能弥补她的愚蠢吗？

12 overestimating   

对（数量）估计过高，对…作过高的评价( overestimate的现在分词 )

参考例句：

• I think you're overestimating his abilities. 我看你对他的能力评价过高。
• With hindsight, he was overestimating their desire for peace. 事后看来，他高估了他们对和平的渴望。

13 aisle   

n.（教堂、教室、戏院等里的）过道，通道

参考例句：

• The aisle was crammed with people.过道上挤满了人。
• The girl ushered me along the aisle to my seat.引座小姐带领我沿着通道到我的座位上去。

14 robust   

adj.强壮的，强健的，粗野的，需要体力的，浓的

参考例句：

• She is too tall and robust.她个子太高，身体太壮。
• China wants to keep growth robust to reduce poverty and avoid job losses,AP commented.美联社评论道，中国希望保持经济强势增长，以减少贫困和失业状况。

15 narrative   

n.叙述，故事；adj.叙事的，故事体的

参考例句：

• He was a writer of great narrative power.他是一位颇有记述能力的作家。
• Neither author was very strong on narrative.两个作者都不是很善于讲故事。

16 civilian   

adj.平民的，民用的，民众的

参考例句：

• There is no reliable information about civilian casualties.关于平民的伤亡还没有确凿的信息。
• He resigned his commission to take up a civilian job.他辞去军职而从事平民工作。

17 negotiations   

协商( negotiation的名词复数 )； 谈判； 完成（难事）； 通过

参考例句：

• negotiations for a durable peace 为持久和平而进行的谈判
• Negotiations have failed to establish any middle ground. 谈判未能达成任何妥协。

18 diplomats   

n.外交官( diplomat的名词复数 )；有手腕的人，善于交际的人

参考例句：

• These events led to the expulsion of senior diplomats from the country. 这些事件导致一些高级外交官被驱逐出境。
• The court has no jurisdiction over foreign diplomats living in this country. 法院对驻本国的外交官无裁判权。 来自《简明英汉词典》

19 diplomacy   

n.外交；外交手腕，交际手腕

参考例句：

• The talks have now gone into a stage of quiet diplomacy.会谈现在已经进入了“温和外交”阶段。
• This was done through the skill in diplomacy. 这是通过外交手腕才做到的。

20 toll   

n.过路(桥)费；损失，伤亡人数；v.敲(钟)

参考例句：

• The hailstone took a heavy toll of the crops in our village last night.昨晚那场冰雹损坏了我们村的庄稼。
• The war took a heavy toll of human life.这次战争夺去了许多人的生命。

21 unnatural   

adj.不自然的；反常的

参考例句：

• Did her behaviour seem unnatural in any way?她有任何反常表现吗？
• She has an unnatural smile on her face.她脸上挂着做作的微笑。

22 relevance   

n.中肯，适当，关联，相关性

参考例句：

• Politicians' private lives have no relevance to their public roles.政治家的私生活与他们的公众角色不相关。
• Her ideas have lost all relevance to the modern world.她的想法与现代社会完全脱节。