美国国家公共电台 NPR--Some states want a fetus to be considered a person. Defining those rights is tough

Some states want a fetus¹ to be considered a person. Defining those rights is tough

Transcript²

NPR's A Martinez talks with Carliss Chatman, a law professor at Washington and Lee School of Law, about fetus personhood laws as a new frontier in legal battles over reproductive rights.

A MART?NEZ, HOST:

The Supreme³ Court opinion erasing⁴ Roe⁵ v. Wade⁶ says the 14th Amendment⁷ right to privacy does not apply to abortion⁸. Now every state can define its own laws on reproductive rights. Abortion bans that were invalidated by Roe have been restored, including laws that extend legal rights to a fetus in utero. Carliss Chatman is a law professor at Washington and Lee School of Law. And she says what's known as fetal personhood could be the next frontier in the legal battle over reproductive rights in the U.S.

CARLISS CHATMAN: The example I like to give is two things. One, the tax code and, an even more simpler one, the HOV lane. The reason that a pregnant woman can't drive in an HOV lane is because there is one person in the car. But if we define a fetus as a person, suddenly there are two people in the car. So this pregnant mother can drive in an HOV lane if a state has a fetal personhood law. In the tax code, the reason that you can't claim the baby on your taxes until it's born is because it is not a person yet. But in a state that has a fetal personhood law, suddenly, you can put that fetus on your tax return. And so those are just, like, two simple kind of everyday things that everyone thinks about that immediately changes when you define a fetus as a person.

MART?NEZ: Now, when it comes, though, to introducing legislation to ban abortion by establishing fetal personhood, not all abortion bans establish that. Is this a legal knot for these states that have done that? Or are there holes in maybe other abortion bans?

CHATMAN: I think it's a knot for states that have done that, in part because we should not have two different definitions of human beings state by state. The 14th Amendment defines that a person is a citizen when they are born. And it kind of is implied to me in the 14th Amendment that they're referring to birth being when life begins. And so if we change that, you're changing federal law and state law at the same time. And I don't know how that is sustainable. You know, it could work the other way. We've got women who are now talking about going from Texas to New York or New Mexico to have an abortion. But if Texas passed a fetal personhood law, why wouldn't a pregnant person then move to Texas so they can get tax deductions⁹ and so that they can get the other benefits of it now being two people at the point of conception? So I think it's a legal quagmire¹⁰ that people are not thinking through. I don't know how it is sustainable to have two different definitions of people, human people, throughout the country.

MART?NEZ: Because that's where we're going, right? Because the argument to strike down Roe was always, well, this isn't something that the Supreme Court should be deciding as much as it should be up to individual states. But I guess if these are the scenarios¹¹ we're talking about, I mean, that could create a big mess.

CHATMAN: Yes. And what I like to analogize it to is what the U.S. was like before the Civil War. Before the Civil War, states had different definitions of when a Black person was a person and when a Black person had citizenship¹² rights, human rights - any rights. And it varied¹³ state by state. We fight a whole civil war about it. Fourteenth Amendment passes, says everyone born in the U.S. is a citizen, essentially¹⁴ says every human being is a person, a legal person with legal rights and due process rights. So in theory, we shouldn't be able to allow states to define when personhood begins if we've got the 14th Amendment in place. But with the overturning of Roe, we know that the right of privacy based on Roe, that is the foundation of abortion rights, is gone. But what is happening with personhood with Roe gone? And I think you go back to the foundations of what the 14th Amendment is, and to be an originalist, why we even have the 14th Amendment in the first place.

MART?NEZ: Now, many of these trigger laws that went into effect post-Roe are being challenged in court. Arizona's law, for example, gives an unborn child, at least, at every stage of development, all rights, privileges and immunities¹⁵ available to other persons, citizens and residents. Now, the lawsuit¹⁶ argues that the law's vagueness violates the right to due process and could put abortion providers and pregnant people at risk for criminal prosecution¹⁷. A hearing is set for July 8 on that. Professor, what arguments are we likely to hear there?

CHATMAN: I'm hoping that they make a strong federal argument that this is a 14th Amendment violation¹⁸, that you cannot redefine when personhood begins state by state. I would love to see that happen. What I fear is that we get lost in the weeds on abortion rights in general. We get lost in the weeds on the fact that now states can define whether or not a woman can have an abortion, when and where and how, and that the personhood argument gets lost in the shuffle¹⁹. I think the personhood argument is actually the stronger argument. But it's also a more complicated argument.

MART?NEZ: Carliss Chatman is a law professor at Washington and Lee School of Law. Professor, thanks.

CHATMAN: Thank you so much for having me.

1 fetus   

n.胎，胎儿

参考例句：

• In the fetus,blood cells are formed in different sites at different ages.胎儿的血细胞在不同时期生成在不同的部位。
• No one knows why a fetus is not automatically rejected by the mother's immune system. 没有人知道为什么母亲的免疫系统不会自动排斥胎儿。

2 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

3 supreme   

adj.极度的，最重要的；至高的，最高的

参考例句：

• It was the supreme moment in his life.那是他一生中最重要的时刻。
• He handed up the indictment to the supreme court.他把起诉书送交最高法院。

4 erasing   

v.擦掉( erase的现在分词 )；抹去；清除

参考例句：

• He was like a sponge, erasing the past, soaking up the future. 他象一块海绵，挤出过去，吸进未来。 来自辞典例句
• Suddenly, fear overtook longing, erasing memories. 突然，恐惧淹没了渴望，泯灭了回忆。 来自辞典例句

5 roe   

n.鱼卵；獐鹿

参考例句：

• We will serve smoked cod's roe at the dinner.宴会上我们将上一道熏鳕鱼子。
• I'll scramble some eggs with roe?我用鱼籽炒几个鸡蛋好吗？

6 wade   

v.跋涉，涉水；n.跋涉

参考例句：

• We had to wade through the river to the opposite bank.我们只好涉水过河到对岸。
• We cannot but wade across the river.我们只好趟水过去。

7 amendment   

n.改正，修正，改善，修正案

参考例句：

• The amendment was rejected by 207 voters to 143.这项修正案以207票对143票被否决。
• The Opposition has tabled an amendment to the bill.反对党已经就该议案提交了一项修正条款。

8 abortion   

n.流产，堕胎

参考例句：

• She had an abortion at the women's health clinic.她在妇女保健医院做了流产手术。
• A number of considerations have led her to have a wilful abortion.多种考虑使她执意堕胎。

9 deductions   

扣除( deduction的名词复数 )； 结论； 扣除的量； 推演

参考例句：

• Many of the older officers trusted agents sightings more than cryptanalysts'deductions. 许多年纪比较大的军官往往相信特务的发现，而不怎么相信密码分析员的推断。
• You know how you rush at things,jump to conclusions without proper deductions. 你知道你处理问题是多么仓促，毫无合适的演绎就仓促下结论。

10 quagmire   

n.沼地

参考例句：

• On their way was a quagmire which was difficult to get over.路上他俩遇到了—个泥坑,很难过得去。
• Rain had turned the grass into a quagmire.大雨使草地变得一片泥泞。

11 scenarios   

n.[意]情节；剧本；事态；脚本

参考例句：

• Further, graphite cores may be safer than non-graphite cores under some accident scenarios. 再者，根据一些事故解说，石墨堆芯可比非石墨堆芯更安全一些。 来自英汉非文学 - 环境法 - 环境法
• Again, scenarios should make it clear which modes are acceptable to users in various contexts. 同样，我们可以运用场景剧本来搞清楚在不同情境下哪些模式可被用户接受。 来自About Face 3交互设计精髓

12 citizenship   

n.市民权，公民权，国民的义务(身份)

参考例句：

• He was born in Sweden,but he doesn't have Swedish citizenship.他在瑞典出生，但没有瑞典公民身分。
• Ten years later,she chose to take Australian citizenship.十年后，她选择了澳大利亚国籍。

13 varied   

adj.多样的，多变化的

参考例句：

• The forms of art are many and varied.艺术的形式是多种多样的。
• The hotel has a varied programme of nightly entertainment.宾馆有各种晚间娱乐活动。

14 essentially   

adv.本质上，实质上，基本上

参考例句：

• Really great men are essentially modest.真正的伟人大都很谦虚。
• She is an essentially selfish person.她本质上是个自私自利的人。

15 immunities   

免除，豁免( immunity的名词复数 )； 免疫力

参考例句：

• Supplying nutrients and immunities to my baby? 为我的宝贝提供营养物质和免疫物质？
• And these provide immunities against the a host of infections and diseases. 这些物质可提高婴儿的免疫力，使之免受病毒感染和疾病侵袭。

16 lawsuit   

n.诉讼，控诉

参考例句：

• They threatened him with a lawsuit.他们以诉讼威逼他。
• He was perpetually involving himself in this long lawsuit.他使自己无休止地卷入这场长时间的诉讼。

17 prosecution   

n.起诉，告发，检举，执行，经营

参考例句：

• The Smiths brought a prosecution against the organizers.史密斯家对组织者们提出起诉。
• He attempts to rebut the assertion made by the prosecution witness.他试图反驳原告方证人所作的断言。

18 violation   

n.违反(行为)，违背(行为)，侵犯

参考例句：

• He roared that was a violation of the rules.他大声说，那是违反规则的。
• He was fined 200 dollars for violation of traffic regulation.他因违反交通规则被罚款200美元。

19 shuffle   

n.拖著脚走，洗纸牌；v.拖曳，慢吞吞地走

参考例句：

• I wish you'd remember to shuffle before you deal.我希望在你发牌前记得洗牌。
• Don't shuffle your feet along.别拖着脚步走。