美国国家公共电台 NPR Sen. Sasse: Comey Firing 'Troubling' Amid 'Crisis Of Public Trust'

 

RACHEL MARTIN, HOST:

We have said this more than once this week. After James Comey's firing, there are still more questions than there are answers. Republican Senator Ben Sasse of Nebraska is still asking, why now. Our co-host, Steve Inskeep, sat down with Senator Sasse to work through that question and others.

STEVE INSKEEP, BYLINE¹: What troubles you about the firing of James Comey?

BENJAMIN SASSE: We have a crisis of public trust in this country that is much deeper than just the last four months or the last 18 months. We have an erosion of a shared narrative² about what America's about. And we have the huge unpopularity of almost all of our governing institutions. That should trouble everybody.

INSKEEP: You said shared narrative, meaning we don't even agree what the country's about anymore.

SASSE: That's right.

INSKEEP: And in the midst of this, the president makes this dramatic step. Why does it bother you?

SASSE: Well, the FBI is a really important institution in American life. We believe in three separate but equal branches. But our founders³ distinguished⁴ between legislative⁵ functions and executive functions and judicial⁶ functions. And so investigative and prosecutorial⁸ functions are in the second branch. And so ultimately, they report up to the president.

But the FBI director has a 10-year term for a reason. He or she is not supposed to be thought of as a Republican or a Democratic actor but as an impartial⁹ investigator¹⁰ who doesn't really report through a chain of command that is ultimately political. There's a lot that reasonable people can differ about the decisions that James Comey made and the way that he conducted himself over the last year.

There were a bunch of unprecedented¹¹ complexities¹² that he had to navigate¹³. And I take issue with some of the ways he handled his - parts of his job. The timing¹⁴ of this firing, I think, is very troubling because there is obviously an active investigation¹⁵ into the president's campaign and organization and associates. And I just wish the president would spend much more time tending to this crisis of public trust.

INSKEEP: Are you saying that the president has done long-term damage to public trust by the way that he's made this decision?

SASSE: I don't think the president has done anything to restore public trust. And we've had eroding¹⁶ public trust for quite some time. I think so much of this fight is being read through people's partisan¹⁷ lenses of who they did support in the last election. It's a shirts-and-skins exercise for way too many Americans. And it shouldn't be that because we should - we need to know a lot more about 2016.

But the thing that keeps me up at night is 2018 and 2020. We know what the Russians are trying to do. We know that the technology around info ops is getting better and better. Here's what I think comes next. I think you're going to start seeing data leaks in the 2018 and 2020 cycle that'll be Steve Inskeep's credit card records. And it'll be 90...

INSKEEP: I'm hoping that that doesn't turn out to be, literally¹⁸, the case. But please, continue.

SASSE: I haven't heard that you're an actual candidate for office. But if you were, I think what you'd see is your credit card records get leaked. And it'll be 93 percent real stuff and 7 percent fabrications. And so it will all be very plausible¹⁹ because you were in this city at that time. And then you were away from work for this travel. And you did X, Y and Z. But then, 7 percent of the credit card records will be, why are you buying so much clothes at a women's clothing store in Chattanooga? That's weird²⁰, Steve. Your wife isn't in Chattanooga.

And I think what's going to happen is you're going to have a drip, drip, drip erosion of trust in almost every public official and almost every public institution. We should be losing sleep about that now before it starts happening because Russia's doing this stuff to their near neighbors now. And the technology is going to get better and better. Putin's main goal is not the election of one candidate or another. But it's to make Americans distrust each other. And he's winning right now.

INSKEEP: What do you make of the president's approach to the Russia investigation, which is to dismiss it, to describe allegations of collusion as a hoax²¹, to push against it at every turn?

SASSE: Yeah, I don't understand how the president makes decisions. I don't think there's an organized decision-making process in the White House about policymaking issues. And one of the president's responsibilities is to try to pass on an understanding of what America's about - well before policy and partisan differences - who are we as a people, and what do we want to build for the kids. I don't think the president takes seriously that civic²² responsibility that all of us in public life have.

INSKEEP: Is there, in your mind, a legitimate²³ concern that the president is in some way compromised or has inappropriate connections with Russia?

SASSE: We don't know enough, yet. We do know this for certain - Russia tries to infiltrate²⁴ elections. They've done it in, obviously - they've got influence in Ukraine. They do things in Estonia. They do things in the former Soviet²⁵ Georgia. They've tried to be involved in the French elections, recently. We know that they wanted to influence the 2016 election. We know that they had all sorts of operations relative to certain people in and around the Trump²⁶ organization and campaign.

We don't know a lot, yet, about how far that went and what the president may or may not have known. I think the firing of James Comey - the timing is terrible. It is good to know, the American people should be reassured²⁷ that, the FBI has a vibrant²⁸, vigorous culture. There's esprit de corps²⁹ there that is serious and that takes the Constitution seriously and takes their institutional responsibility seriously. So there is no doubt that inside the bureau there are a whole bunch of people who will be pursuing that investigation.

INSKEEP: Given the concerns you've raised, should there not be an independent investigation, a special prosecutor⁷ for example or whatever new mechanism³⁰ would be set up?

SASSE: I'm not calling for that at this time. I'm open to that deliberation as we go forward because I think that would be a vote of no confidence in the Senate intelligence committee's investigation. And I think what the American people need is to have a restoration of their trust that some of our institutions can work. If we abandon the two institutions that are investigating now - the FBI and the Senate intelligence committee - and we start over with a new one, that one will also be called into question. If it's - the Independent Counsel statute³¹ isn't really in place at present. So the way you'd actually establish it is complicated. Rod Rosenstein, the deputy attorney general, arguably, could appoint a special prosecutor.

INSKEEP: The very guy who was involved in the firing of Comey.

SASSE: Exactly. So ultimately, we're filled with humans. And we're all flawed. And so you've got feet of clay all the way down. And whenever you restart this, there will be new reasons to doubt. So I'm not calling for a special investigation at this time.

INSKEEP: I can imagine someone listening to you and saying, well, that's a very thoughtful point Senator Sasse. And I can also imagine someone listening to you and saying, what is the matter with you? What more do you need to hear? There's been so much evidence that something is very, very wrong here.

SASSE: Something is very, very wrong here. I don't - I don't disagree at all. What we don't know is where exactly that ends. So I want these investigations³² to proceed.

(SOUNDBITE OF MOSCA'S "MOMENTS NEVER FORGET")

MARTIN: That was Senator Ben Sasse, Republican from Nebraska, talking with our co-host, Steve Inskeep. On Tuesday, we'll hear more from Sasse about his new book. It's titled "The Vanishing American Adult."

1 byline   

n.署名；v.署名

参考例句：

• His byline was absent as well.他的署名也不见了。
• We wish to thank the author of this article which carries no byline.我们要感谢这篇文章的那位没有署名的作者。

2 narrative   

n.叙述，故事；adj.叙事的，故事体的

参考例句：

• He was a writer of great narrative power.他是一位颇有记述能力的作家。
• Neither author was very strong on narrative.两个作者都不是很善于讲故事。

3 founders   

n.创始人( founder的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• He was one of the founders of the university's medical faculty. 他是该大学医学院的创建人之一。 来自辞典例句
• The founders of our religion made this a cornerstone of morality. 我们宗教的创始人把这看作是道德的基石。 来自辞典例句

4 distinguished   

adj.卓越的，杰出的，著名的

参考例句：

• Elephants are distinguished from other animals by their long noses.大象以其长长的鼻子显示出与其他动物的不同。
• A banquet was given in honor of the distinguished guests.宴会是为了向贵宾们致敬而举行的。

5 legislative   

n.立法机构，立法权；adj.立法的，有立法权的

参考例句：

• Congress is the legislative branch of the U.S. government.国会是美国政府的立法部门。
• Today's hearing was just the first step in the legislative process.今天的听证会只是展开立法程序的第一步。

6 judicial   

adj.司法的，法庭的，审判的，明断的，公正的

参考例句：

• He is a man with a judicial mind.他是个公正的人。
• Tom takes judicial proceedings against his father.汤姆对他的父亲正式提出诉讼。

7 prosecutor   

n.起诉人；检察官，公诉人

参考例句：

• The defender argued down the prosecutor at the court.辩护人在法庭上驳倒了起诉人。
• The prosecutor would tear your testimony to pieces.检查官会把你的证言驳得体无完肤。

8 prosecutorial   

公诉人的，原告的； 起诉的

参考例句：

• If prosecutorial misconduct results in a mistrial, a later prosecution may be barred. 如果检察官的不轨行为导致审判无效，再行起诉可能会被除数禁止。 来自口语例句
• Prosecutorial supervision is required according to public power attribution of civil litigation. 民事诉讼的个性和检察监督是对立统一的关系，并不排斥检察监督。

9 impartial   

adj.(in,to)公正的，无偏见的

参考例句：

• He gave an impartial view of the state of affairs in Ireland.他对爱尔兰的事态发表了公正的看法。
• Careers officers offer impartial advice to all pupils.就业指导员向所有学生提供公正无私的建议。

10 investigator   

n.研究者，调查者，审查者

参考例句：

• He was a special investigator for the FBI.他是联邦调查局的特别调查员。
• The investigator was able to deduce the crime and find the criminal.调查者能够推出犯罪过程并锁定罪犯。

11 unprecedented   

adj.无前例的，新奇的

参考例句：

• The air crash caused an unprecedented number of deaths.这次空难的死亡人数是空前的。
• A flood of this sort is really unprecedented.这样大的洪水真是十年九不遇。

12 complexities   

复杂性(complexity的名词复数)； 复杂的事物

参考例句：

• The complexities of life bothered him. 生活的复杂使他困惑。
• The complexities of life bothered me. 生活的杂乱事儿使我心烦。

13 navigate   

v.航行，飞行；导航，领航

参考例句：

• He was the first man to navigate the Atlantic by air.他是第一个飞越大西洋的人。
• Such boats can navigate on the Nile.这种船可以在尼罗河上航行。

14 timing   

n.时间安排，时间选择

参考例句：

• The timing of the meeting is not convenient.会议的时间安排不合适。
• The timing of our statement is very opportune.我们发表声明选择的时机很恰当。

15 investigation   

n.调查，调查研究

参考例句：

• In an investigation,a new fact became known, which told against him.在调查中新发现了一件对他不利的事实。
• He drew the conclusion by building on his own investigation.他根据自己的调查研究作出结论。

16 eroding   

侵蚀，腐蚀( erode的现在分词 )； 逐渐毁坏，削弱，损害

参考例句：

• The coast is slowly eroding. 海岸正慢慢地被侵蚀。
• Another new development is eroding the age-old stereotype of the male warrior. 另一个新现象是，久已形成的男人皆武士的形象正逐渐消失。

17 partisan   

adj.党派性的；游击队的；n.游击队员；党徒

参考例句：

• In their anger they forget all the partisan quarrels.愤怒之中，他们忘掉一切党派之争。
• The numerous newly created partisan detachments began working slowly towards that region.许多新建的游击队都开始慢慢地向那里移动。

18 literally   

adv.照字面意义，逐字地；确实

参考例句：

• He translated the passage literally.他逐字逐句地翻译这段文字。
• Sometimes she would not sit down till she was literally faint.有时候，她不走到真正要昏厥了，决不肯坐下来。

19 plausible   

adj.似真实的，似乎有理的，似乎可信的

参考例句：

• His story sounded plausible.他说的那番话似乎是真实的。
• Her story sounded perfectly plausible.她的说辞听起来言之有理。

20 weird   

adj.古怪的，离奇的；怪诞的，神秘而可怕的

参考例句：

• From his weird behaviour,he seems a bit of an oddity.从他不寻常的行为看来，他好像有点怪。
• His weird clothes really gas me.他的怪衣裳简直笑死人。

21 hoax   

v.欺骗，哄骗，愚弄；n.愚弄人，恶作剧

参考例句：

• They were the victims of a cruel hoax.他们是一个残忍恶作剧的受害者。
• They hoax him out of his money.他们骗去他的钱。

22 civic   

adj.城市的，都市的，市民的，公民的

参考例句：

• I feel it is my civic duty to vote.我认为投票选举是我作为公民的义务。
• The civic leaders helped to forward the project.市政府领导者协助促进工程的进展。

23 legitimate   

adj.合法的，合理的，合乎逻辑的；v.使合法

参考例句：

• Sickness is a legitimate reason for asking for leave.生病是请假的一个正当的理由。
• That's a perfectly legitimate fear.怀有这种恐惧完全在情理之中。

24 infiltrate   

vt./vi.渗入，透过；浸润

参考例句：

• The teacher tried to infiltrate her ideas into the children's minds.老师设法把她的思想渗透到孩子们的心中。
• It can infiltrate as much as 100 kilometers into enemy territory at night.可以在夜间深入敌领土100千米。

25 Soviet   

adj.苏联的，苏维埃的；n.苏维埃

参考例句：

• Zhukov was a marshal of the former Soviet Union.朱可夫是前苏联的一位元帅。
• Germany began to attack the Soviet Union in 1941.德国在1941年开始进攻苏联。

26 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

27 reassured   

adj.使消除疑虑的；使放心的v.再保证，恢复信心( reassure的过去式和过去分词)

参考例句：

• The captain's confidence during the storm reassured the passengers. 在风暴中船长的信念使旅客们恢复了信心。 来自《现代英汉综合大词典》
• The doctor reassured the old lady. 医生叫那位老妇人放心。 来自《简明英汉词典》

28 vibrant   

adj.震颤的，响亮的，充满活力的，精力充沛的，(色彩)鲜明的

参考例句：

• He always uses vibrant colours in his paintings. 他在画中总是使用鲜明的色彩。
• She gave a vibrant performance in the leading role in the school play.她在学校表演中生气盎然地扮演了主角。

29 corps   

n.(通信等兵种的)部队；(同类作的)一组

参考例句：

• The medical corps were cited for bravery in combat.医疗队由于在战场上的英勇表现而受嘉奖。
• When the war broke out,he volunteered for the Marine Corps.战争爆发时，他自愿参加了海军陆战队。

30 mechanism   

n.机械装置；机构，结构

参考例句：

• The bones and muscles are parts of the mechanism of the body.骨骼和肌肉是人体的组成部件。
• The mechanism of the machine is very complicated.这台机器的结构是非常复杂的。

31 statute   

n.成文法，法令，法规；章程，规则，条例

参考例句：

• Protection for the consumer is laid down by statute.保障消费者利益已在法令里作了规定。
• The next section will consider this environmental statute in detail.下一部分将详细论述环境法令的问题。

32 investigations   

（正式的）调查( investigation的名词复数 )； 侦查； 科学研究； 学术研究

参考例句：

• His investigations were intensive and thorough but revealed nothing. 他进行了深入彻底的调查，但没有发现什么。
• He often sent them out to make investigations. 他常常派他们出去作调查。