美国国家公共电台 NPR This Is About Obsession: Kathryn Hahn On The New Amazon Series, 'I Love Dick'

 

AUDIE CORNISH, HOST:

There's a new show on Amazon that breaks a lot of rules. It doesn't even seem to know there are rules. It's called, "I Love Dick" based on a book by the same name.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "I LOVE DICK")

KATHRYN HAHN: (As Chris Kraus) Dear Dick, this is about obsession¹. How did we not know each other before now? This is about me missing you even though I've never met you, Dick.

CORNISH: That's Kathryn Hahn as Chris Kraus. She's obsessed² with a guy named Dick played by Kevin Bacon. They meet at an art institute in Marfa, Texas. Our co-host Kelly McEvers watched the series and spoke³ to its star.

KELLY MCEVERS, HOST:

"I Love Dick" is about desire and marriage and sex and art and boundaries - boundaries that get crossed and blurred⁴ a lot. Kathryn Hahn is with us from New York. Thanks for being with us.

HAHN: Oh, my God, my pleasure.

MCEVERS: This show is based on a novel that was written 20 years ago - wasn't very well known until it was rereleased a few years back. When did you first read the book, and what did you think about it?

HAHN: Well, first of all, I would say, I think that Chris would define it as autofiction (ph). It is actually a series of letters that she wrote to a gentleman that she was obsessed with named Dick while she was married to a man named Sylvere.

MCEVERS: Right, which all happens in the show.

HAHN: Yes. And it was through the writing of these letters - this obsession - that she kind of finds her voice as a woman and a human and an artist. I had never heard of the book before, and I was flabbergasted that I had never heard of it before.

I was challenged by it. I was so moved, turned on. I thought it was hilarious⁵ and messy and complicated and maddening and troublesome and just chewy.

MCEVERS: So in this TV show, the character Chris Kraus, as we heard, she falls for this man named Dick. And he's like the resident manly⁶ man and artist. Just talk about, like, when she first sees him and, like, what happens to her.

HAHN: When we meet Chris Kraus, she is in a particular high, like a high period of her creative life. She has a film. She's made many, many films - all very vague. And she finally had a film that was put in a - what you imagine is like a French side of the Venice Film Festival. So this is a huge coup⁷ for her.

At the same time, her older husband Sylvere - he gets a residency in this - at this fictional⁸ institute in Marfa. She drives him there to drop him off. And it's when they land in this kind of island in the desert that she learns that the film has been pulled from the festival because of a rights issue over a song. And so out of this - this like swirling⁹ self-hatred, you know, stew¹⁰, come - like, appears this - the basically the Marlboro man who's like...

MCEVERS: (Laughter).

HAHN: ...Who's. Like such a gorgeous manly cliche¹¹. He's withholding¹². He's mysterious. He's condescending¹³. He's dismissive, and...

MCEVERS: And he's on a horse (laughter)...

HAHN: And he's literally¹⁴ on a horse.

MCEVERS: ...The first time she sees him.

HAHN: Yeah.

MCEVERS: The show, Chris Kraus, the character who you play, you know, she's realizing that these letters are her art. The person that she is obsessed with is an artist. Because of that and a bunch of other things, the show raises a lot of really interesting questions about art, like what is good art and whose art is valued? I want to listen to a clip. It's your - it's Chris Kraus, your character, talking to this young lesbian who works as a caretaker at the institute where Chris' husband has a fellowship. Let's listen.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "I LOVE DICK")

HAHN: (As Chris Kraus) You know, I'm beginning to think, like, there's no such thing as a good woman filmmaker. It's like, how can you be if you just are, like, raised to be invisible - I mean, visible. I mean looked at. I mean, it's a wonder that any woman can think of herself as an artist.

ROBERTA COLINDREZ: (As Devon) I'm an artist too, so.

HAHN: (As Chris Kraus) Oh, I didn't realize.

MCEVERS: Over here, she is, like, so upset about how her art is not appreciated. And yet, she is kind of doing the same thing to somebody else, right?

HAHN: Oh, God, Chris Kraus. Yes. Yeah, I know. She's just jealous and petty and angry and small. Yes, absolutely.

MCEVERS: But yet has these concerns about, like, you know, it's not easy being a lady sometimes in these worlds.

HAHN: No, and especially - well, no. Just historically, we've been the object of someone else's storytelling. And so it is, how do you just take that and flip¹⁵ it and be the subject? It's - you know, we had an all-women writers' room, which, as far as we know, is the first time that's happened. And that was pretty extraordinary and also felt like, what's the big deal? You know, there was mostly women...

MCEVERS: (Laughter) Exactly, like, it's supposed - everyone's like, wow. But then it's like, wait a second, that shouldn't be a big deal.

HAHN: Right. And even Kevin Bacon was like - because so many people had been like, how did that feel not having someone in there to - and he was like, well, that's what has happened, you know, for centuries the other way around.

You know, we've been having our stories told by men. Just to have those - that energy and those eyeballs looking at you with empathy and with curiosity and not with, like, a judgment¹⁶ was like - actually, became an incredibly freeing for all of us because it just became about, like, more and more and more rather than hand-wringing and, like, is this right? Or is this, like - I don't know. I don't know. It was just like...

MCEVERS: Is it was too much?

HAHN: No. yeah, right. Is it too loud? Is it too ugly? Is it too - it's too unlikable.

MCEVERS: And one of the really amazing things is the men are the objects, you know?

HAHN: It is a great reversal, and you're right. And Kevin has even said this, like, it is, though - those two men - Griffin Dunne, who plays my husband also, and Kevin Bacon - like, those two characters are so beautifully examined. And they're such profound actors, the both of them. So, you know, by the end of it, their humanity is like - you know, he's like, it's crazy that it took an all-women's writing room to find, you know, such complicated, amazing...

MCEVERS: Men (laughter).

HAHN: ...Rounded men. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

MCEVERS: You know, we talked about Chris Kraus who wrote the book that formed the foundation of this show, I guess we could say, and how, you know, so much of it is about finding her voice as an artist and realizing that what she's doing and saying is art. You're an artist, and you're a woman. How did working on this show - I don't know - change you?

HAHN: Oh, so much. I mean, you know, this show has been like incredibly life altering for me just thinking like, wow, like how much of a good girl I had been for so long and what that meant. You know, I apologize if someone knocks into me on the street (laughter). I'd be the first like, oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, sorry. Like, just like my - it's such a default character thing of mine and just like how much I didn't realize I had been swallowing.

And so there was definitely a feeling of not apologizing for my voice that was inevitable¹⁷. I think any of us that worked on this would say the same thing of just, like, authenticity¹⁸ and just, like, knowing your voice is of value and not for somebody else to, you know, use or pretend to know.

MCEVERS: Well Kathryn Hahn, thank you so much.

HAHN: Oh, My God, more please next time. This was just such a dream. I stole five of your buttons.

MCEVERS: We really, really appreciate it. Thanks so much for coming in.

HAHN: Thank you.

MCEVERS: The show is "I Love Dick," and it is out now on Amazon.

(SOUNDBITE OF KINOBE SONG, "CHASING CLOUDS")

1 obsession   

n.困扰，无法摆脱的思想(或情感)

参考例句：

• I was suffering from obsession that my career would be ended.那时的我陷入了我的事业有可能就此终止的困扰当中。
• She would try to forget her obsession with Christopher.她会努力忘记对克里斯托弗的迷恋。

2 obsessed   

adj.心神不宁的,鬼迷心窍的,沉迷的

参考例句：

• He's obsessed by computers. 他迷上了电脑。
• The fear of death obsessed him throughout his old life. 他晚年一直受着死亡恐惧的困扰。

3 spoke   

n.（车轮的）辐条；轮辐；破坏某人的计划；阻挠某人的行动 v.讲，谈（speak的过去式）；说；演说；从某种观点来说

参考例句：

• They sourced the spoke nuts from our company.他们的轮辐螺帽是从我们公司获得的。
• The spokes of a wheel are the bars that connect the outer ring to the centre.辐条是轮子上连接外圈与中心的条棒。

4 blurred   

v.（使）变模糊( blur的过去式和过去分词 )；（使）难以区分；模模糊糊；迷离

参考例句：

• She suffered from dizziness and blurred vision. 她饱受头晕目眩之苦。
• Their lazy, blurred voices fell pleasantly on his ears. 他们那种慢吞吞、含糊不清的声音在他听起来却很悦耳。 来自《简明英汉词典》

5 hilarious   

adj.充满笑声的，欢闹的；[反]depressed

参考例句：

• The party got quite hilarious after they brought more wine.在他们又拿来更多的酒之后，派对变得更加热闹起来。
• We stop laughing because the show was so hilarious.我们笑个不停，因为那个节目太搞笑了。

6 manly   

adj.有男子气概的；adv.男子般地，果断地

参考例句：

• The boy walked with a confident manly stride.这男孩以自信的男人步伐行走。
• He set himself manly tasks and expected others to follow his example.他给自己定下了男子汉的任务，并希望别人效之。

7 coup   

n.政变；突然而成功的行动

参考例句：

• The monarch was ousted by a military coup.那君主被军事政变者废黜了。
• That government was overthrown in a military coup three years ago.那个政府在3年前的军事政变中被推翻。

8 fictional   

adj.小说的，虚构的

参考例句：

• The names of the shops are entirely fictional.那些商店的名字完全是虚构的。
• The two authors represent the opposite poles of fictional genius.这两位作者代表了天才小说家两个极端。

9 swirling   

v.旋转，打旋( swirl的现在分词 )

参考例句：

• Snowflakes were swirling in the air. 天空飘洒着雪花。 来自《现代汉英综合大词典》
• She smiled, swirling the wine in her glass. 她微笑着，旋动着杯子里的葡萄酒。 来自辞典例句

10 stew   

n.炖汤，焖，烦恼；v.炖汤，焖，忧虑

参考例句：

• The stew must be boiled up before serving.炖肉必须煮熟才能上桌。
• There's no need to get in a stew.没有必要烦恼。

11 cliche   

n./a.陈词滥调(的)；老生常谈(的)；陈腐的

参考例句：

• You should always try to avoid the use of cliche. 你应该尽量避免使用陈词滥调。
• The old cliche is certainly true:the bigger car do mean bigger profits.有句老话倒的确说得不假:车大利大。

12 withholding   

扣缴税款

参考例句：

• She was accused of withholding information from the police. 她被指控对警方知情不报。
• The judge suspected the witness was withholding information. 法官怀疑见证人在隐瞒情况。

13 condescending   

adj.谦逊的,故意屈尊的

参考例句：

• He has a condescending attitude towards women. 他对女性总是居高临下。
• He tends to adopt a condescending manner when talking to young women. 和年轻女子说话时，他喜欢摆出一副高高在上的姿态。

14 literally   

adv.照字面意义，逐字地；确实

参考例句：

• He translated the passage literally.他逐字逐句地翻译这段文字。
• Sometimes she would not sit down till she was literally faint.有时候，她不走到真正要昏厥了，决不肯坐下来。

15 flip   

vt.快速翻动；轻抛；轻拍；n.轻抛；adj.轻浮的

参考例句：

• I had a quick flip through the book and it looked very interesting.我很快翻阅了一下那本书，看来似乎很有趣。
• Let's flip a coin to see who pays the bill.咱们来抛硬币决定谁付钱。

16 judgment   

n.审判；判断力，识别力，看法，意见

参考例句：

• The chairman flatters himself on his judgment of people.主席自认为他审视人比别人高明。
• He's a man of excellent judgment.他眼力过人。

17 inevitable   

adj.不可避免的，必然发生的

参考例句：

• Mary was wearing her inevitable large hat.玛丽戴着她总是戴的那顶大帽子。
• The defeat had inevitable consequences for British policy.战败对英国政策不可避免地产生了影响。

18 authenticity   

n.真实性

参考例句：

• There has been some debate over the authenticity of his will. 对于他的遗嘱的真实性一直有争论。
• The museum is seeking an expert opinion on the authenticity of the painting. 博物馆在请专家鉴定那幅画的真伪。