美国国家公共电台 NPR 'Red Sparrow' Author And Ex-CIA Agent Says New Movie Gets Spy Life Right

 

MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:

In the new movie "Red Sparrow," a CIA officer walks alone in Gorky Park in Moscow. There's a handoff, a brush pass in the darkness with a Russian agent. Then all goes wrong - police lights, gunshots. The CIA officer has to run for his life straight to the gates of the American embassy. Well, the movie "Red Sparrow" is based on the book "Red Sparrow," the first of an espionage¹ trilogy. The author of which, Jason Matthews, is following the tried-and-true rule - write what you know. Jason Matthews is ex-CIA - a former station chief, 33 years in the clandestine² service. He is in our New York bureau now. Hi, there.

JASON MATTHEWS: Hello.

KELLY: Welcome. I have to ask. In this movie, as you watched your writing be translated to the big screen, were there aspects of the spy life - of tradecraft that were important to you that they get it right?

MATTHEWS: They did get it right. They stayed fairly close to the plot of the "Red Sparrow" book. Generally, the tradecraft is authentic³ and reflected the old Cold War techniques.

KELLY: Like what? Give me an example.

MATTHEWS: Well, the brush pass in Gorky Park - when I read the first script, they wanted to do it differently. And as technical adviser⁴, I basically told them what a real brush pass looked like.

KELLY: What did they get wrong that you had to correct them on?

MATTHEWS: Well, originally, I think they wanted to have the agent, the Russian, leave a envelope on a park bench, get up and walk away as the American approached. You never do that. You go from hand to hand to make sure that the transfer is made.

KELLY: There's something else I want to ask you if it's actually real - this Sparrow School. Your heroine, who is played in the movie version by Jennifer Lawrence, she is Russian intelligence. And she gets sent to a place called Sparrow School, which is a secret school that trains aspiring⁵ Russian spies to use their minds and their bodies as weapons. Let's hear a little bit of that from the movie.

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "RED SPARROW")

CHARLOTTE RAMPLING: (As Matron) Here we deal in psychological manipulation. You'll be trained to determine a target's weakness, to exploit that weakness through seduction and to extract information. Take off your clothes. Your body belongs to the state.

KELLY: That's an instructor⁶ at Sparrow School speaking. Jason Matthews, is Sparrow School real?

MATTHEWS: In the '60s and the '70s, in the Soviet⁷ Union, they had an academy. It was called State School Four. But I think now that academy is closed. Any such work - sexpionage (ph)...

KELLY: Sexpionage, I haven't heard that. Go on.

MATTHEWS: Yeah, it's done by probably young ladies in the five-star hotels in Moscow. They're independent contractors⁸.

KELLY: So this still goes on. They just may not be going to something called State School Four or Sparrow School.

MATTHEWS: That's right.

KELLY: The character Jennifer Lawrence plays, Dominika Egorova, she is SVR, which is Russia's foreign intelligence service and the counterpart to the CIA. What advice did you give her? I know you were on set. What advice did you give her to try to play that character in a way that felt accurate?

MATTHEWS: Well, we visited the set only for a couple of days. What we did tell her - that all Russians in the employ of CIA, especially in Russia, even to this day must live with an constant overarching dread⁹ - a dread of discovery, a dread of being arrested, a dread of going to prison and, in the old days, the dread of execution.

KELLY: And so the challenge was how to get her into that mindset so that she could play that character in a way that felt real.

MATTHEWS: Yes. Different people react differently to that horrible strain and pressure. But I think Jennifer did a fantastic job in being sort of very professional and very steely about things.

KELLY: The central narrative¹⁰ of "Red Sparrow" - if I can attempt to summarize it - it's spies who are double-crossing each other while being double-crossed or maybe triple-crossed. There's a scene I want to play. This is Dominika. She's being polygraphed because she's just agreed to spy for the U.S. for the CIA.

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "RED SPARROW")

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (As character) We're just going to ask you some routine questions to begin - name?

JENNIFER LAWRENCE: (As Dominika Egorova) Dominika Egorova.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (As character) Did you eat breakfast this morning?

LAWRENCE: (As Dominika Egorova) Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (As character) Are you an officer of the Russian intelligence service?

LAWRENCE: (As Dominika Egorova) Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: (As character) Are you here because CIA officer Nate Nash recruited you?

LAWRENCE: (As Dominika Egorova) Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: (As character) Are you willing to work for the American government?

LAWRENCE: (As Dominika Egorova) Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: (As character) And you intend to give us genuine information.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (As character) Yes or no.

LAWRENCE: (As Dominika Egorova) Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: (As character) Why would you do that?

LAWRENCE: (As Dominika Egorova) I thought that was just yes or no.

KELLY: Without giving plot twists away, you never know which side she's on as this story unfolds. Is that how it feels in real life when you are working with a foreign agent?

MATTHEWS: That scene was very accurate, especially in the polygraph examination - is always answered yes or no. That scene was very, very realistic.

KELLY: It's funny watching this film, reading this book, today in 2018, with Russia so much in the headlines in real life, all the Russia investigations¹¹ unfolding. What has that felt like for you, to watch this play out in this time where suddenly Russia is right back at the top of the news cycle?

MATTHEWS: I thank - every morning I wake up, I thank Vladimir Putin for being the endless, bottomless cup of content.

KELLY: (Laughter).

MATTHEWS: You could not make this up. And the movie is perfectly¹² timed in terms of current events.

KELLY: Yeah, you got lucky.

MATTHEWS: Yeah.

KELLY: It's funny though because your book and now the movie version is so much about these two spies who become lovers circling each other. It's about seduction and manipulation. It is not about Russian trolls and cyber bots, which I guess wouldn't make for quite as sexy a Hollywood movie. But I wonder also if you're saying something deeper here about the way espionage with Russia used to work and, maybe to a certain extent, still does.

MATTHEWS: Well, I was setting out with the trilogy to write the classic spy novel - U.S.A. versus¹³ Russian Federation¹⁴, Vladimir Putin versus CIA. And I think the love interest just sort of complicated the equation. I hope it worked. I hope the books are entertaining.

KELLY: But does it feel accurate to you, sitting here in 2018, when it appears that Russian intelligence efforts are very much focused on the cyber battlefield?

MATTHEWS: Well, I think the cyber stuff goes on. And the active measures go on. And all the influence campaigns go on. But at midnight behind the soccer stadium, in many countries around the world, CIA officers are meeting information sources still. Human intelligence is still the gold standard.

KELLY: Jason Matthews, thank you.

MATTHEWS: My pleasure.

KELLY: CIA veteran Jason Matthews, the author of a trio of espionage novels - the first of which, "Red Sparrow," is out now in movie version.

(SOUNDBITE OF JAMES NEWTON HOWARD'S "BLONDE SUITS YOU")

ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:

Well, in a further blurring¹⁵ of fiction and reality, Mary Louise, you're heading to Moscow next week and are going to be anchoring the program from Russia.

KELLY: I am indeed. Our visas just came through this afternoon - thank goodness. It was down to the wire. And I'm going to be anchoring out of the Moscow bureau end of next week, start of the following week because it's the presidential elections there - March 18.

SHAPIRO: And you've got a bunch of stories lined up. Want to give us a little sneak¹⁶ preview?

KELLY: I mean, the big question is - there's zero suspense¹⁷ in this election.

SHAPIRO: Right, Putin is going to win.

KELLY: Even the people who are running against Putin say he's going to win. But what's he going to do with it? What do six more years of Vladimir Putin look like? And how much does he need to win by to make this look legit? Well, we're going to be asking.

SHAPIRO: We will look forward to hearing you anchor this program next week from Russia as the elections unfold.

1 espionage   

n.间谍行为，谍报活动

参考例句：

• The authorities have arrested several people suspected of espionage.官方已经逮捕了几个涉嫌从事间谍活动的人。
• Neither was there any hint of espionage in Hanley's early life.汉利的早期生活也毫无进行间谍活动的迹象。

2 clandestine   

adj.秘密的，暗中从事的

参考例句：

• She is the director of clandestine operations of the CIA.她是中央情报局秘密行动的负责人。
• The early Christians held clandestine meetings in caves.早期的基督徒在洞穴中秘密聚会。

3 authentic   

a.真的，真正的；可靠的，可信的，有根据的

参考例句：

• This is an authentic news report. We can depend on it. 这是篇可靠的新闻报道, 我们相信它。
• Autumn is also the authentic season of renewal. 秋天才是真正的除旧布新的季节。

4 adviser   

n.劝告者，顾问

参考例句：

• They employed me as an adviser.他们聘请我当顾问。
• Our department has engaged a foreign teacher as phonetic adviser.我们系已经聘请了一位外籍老师作为语音顾问。

5 aspiring   

adj.有志气的；有抱负的；高耸的v.渴望；追求

参考例句：

• Aspiring musicians need hours of practice every day. 想当音乐家就要每天练许多小时。
• He came from an aspiring working-class background. 他出身于有抱负的工人阶级家庭。 来自辞典例句

6 instructor   

n.指导者，教员，教练

参考例句：

• The college jumped him from instructor to full professor.大学突然把他从讲师提升为正教授。
• The skiing instructor was a tall,sunburnt man.滑雪教练是一个高高个子晒得黑黑的男子。

7 Soviet   

adj.苏联的，苏维埃的；n.苏维埃

参考例句：

• Zhukov was a marshal of the former Soviet Union.朱可夫是前苏联的一位元帅。
• Germany began to attack the Soviet Union in 1941.德国在1941年开始进攻苏联。

8 contractors   

n.（建筑、监造中的）承包人( contractor的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• We got estimates from three different contractors before accepting the lowest. 我们得到3个承包商的报价后，接受了最低的报价。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• Contractors winning construction jobs had to kick back 2 per cent of the contract price to the mafia. 赢得建筑工作的承包商得抽出合同价格的百分之二的回扣给黑手党。 来自《简明英汉词典》

9 dread   

vt.担忧，忧虑；惧怕，不敢；n.担忧，畏惧

参考例句：

• We all dread to think what will happen if the company closes.我们都不敢去想一旦公司关门我们该怎么办。
• Her heart was relieved of its blankest dread.她极度恐惧的心理消除了。

10 narrative   

n.叙述，故事；adj.叙事的，故事体的

参考例句：

• He was a writer of great narrative power.他是一位颇有记述能力的作家。
• Neither author was very strong on narrative.两个作者都不是很善于讲故事。

11 investigations   

（正式的）调查( investigation的名词复数 )； 侦查； 科学研究； 学术研究

参考例句：

• His investigations were intensive and thorough but revealed nothing. 他进行了深入彻底的调查，但没有发现什么。
• He often sent them out to make investigations. 他常常派他们出去作调查。

12 perfectly   

adv.完美地，无可非议地，彻底地

参考例句：

• The witnesses were each perfectly certain of what they said.证人们个个对自己所说的话十分肯定。
• Everything that we're doing is all perfectly above board.我们做的每件事情都是光明正大的。

13 versus   

prep.以…为对手，对；与…相比之下

参考例句：

• The big match tonight is England versus Spain.今晚的大赛是英格兰对西班牙。
• The most exciting game was Harvard versus Yale.最富紧张刺激的球赛是哈佛队对耶鲁队。

14 federation   

n.同盟，联邦，联合，联盟，联合会

参考例句：

• It is a federation of 10 regional unions.它是由十个地方工会结合成的联合会。
• Mr.Putin was inaugurated as the President of the Russian Federation.普京正式就任俄罗斯联邦总统。

15 blurring   

n.模糊，斑点甚多，（图像的）混乱v.（使）变模糊( blur的现在分词 )；（使）难以区分

参考例句：

• Retinal hemorrhage, and blurring of the optic dise cause visual disturbances. 视网膜出血及神经盘模糊等可导致视力障碍。 来自辞典例句
• In other ways the Bible limited Puritan writing, blurring and deadening the pages. 另一方面，圣经又限制了清教时期的作品，使它们显得晦涩沉闷。 来自辞典例句

16 sneak   

vt.潜行(隐藏,填石缝)；偷偷摸摸做；n.潜行；adj.暗中进行

参考例句：

• He raised his spear and sneak forward.他提起长矛悄悄地前进。
• I saw him sneak away from us.我看见他悄悄地从我们身边走开。

17 suspense   

n.（对可能发生的事）紧张感，担心，挂虑

参考例句：

• The suspense was unbearable.这样提心吊胆的状况实在叫人受不了。
• The director used ingenious devices to keep the audience in suspense.导演用巧妙手法引起观众的悬念。