美国国家公共电台 NPR Fact-Based Novel 'Darwin's Ghosts' Explores Righting Ancestors' Wrongs

 

MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:

The writer Ariel Dorfman - born in Argentina, raised in Chile, now living and teaching in the U.S. - is known around the world for his art and his activism in behalf of human rights. His signature work, "Death And The Maiden¹," a 1990 play about an encounter between a woman and the man she believes raped³ and tortured her, has long been a touchstone for people reckoning with the impact of dictatorship. Similarly, his many works of fiction grapple with difficult questions about politics, history, and memory.

Now he has a new novel that speaks to those themes. It's called "Darwin's Ghosts." The main character is Fitzroy Foster, a boy living in Massachusetts. On his 14th birthday, his father snaps a Polaroid to document the occasion. But as the image develops, the face on Fitzroy's body is not his but that of a stranger with a very different appearance. The strange phenomenon continues as Fitzroy grows up and eventually leads him to start searching for answers, a journey which leads him to uncover a family history of racial exploitation and oppression.

And Ariel Dorfman is with us now from WUNC in Durham, N.C., where he is the Walter Hines Page research professor emeritus⁴ of literature at Duke University. Professor Dorfman, thank you so much for speaking with us.

ARIEL DORFMAN: I'm so glad to be on ALL THINGS CONSIDERED. I think we're going to consider all things in this novel.

MARTIN: Well, I think we are. So how on earth did this idea come to you?

DORFMAN: You know, it - I was sitting one day trying to get one of these passes that you have for homeland security to go in and out of the country without any trouble, you know. And I was thinking, while I waited, what if when they take my photograph, another person comes there and takes over my face? How can I explain it? Imagine if you, Michel, were there and all of a sudden you woke up and there's something on your face. I mean, there's a different - there's a stranger there.

MARTIN: Well, you know, the premise⁵ is fantastic. But many of the issues that you raise are actually rooted in historical fact. I mean, in the course of the novel, we discover that the man in Fitzroy's photos is actually an indigenous⁶ man who was kidnapped from Tierra del Fuego, Argentina, in the 19th century - was imprisoned⁸ in a human zoo. Now these are real things, you know, human zoo. So I'm wondering how that idea got connected to the - this idea that came to you while you were sitting in that chair getting photographed.

DORFMAN: Well let's see, I mean, one year after I was sitting in that chair and I'm still turning it over my head. I came across these photographs of these aboriginals⁹ - Native Americans, really. And I began looking at one - one of them really, really haunted me. These people were in fact abducted¹⁰. They weren't abducted only from Chile and Argentina, which is what we finally find out though I shouldn't be telling the audience about this but doesn't matter. They were taken from Africa. They were taken from Asia. They were taken from Australia, and they were exhibited in zoos. I mean, as if they were animals, they were caged. Millions of people went to those zoos and looked at those people.

Today, we would think, no. To cage somebody inside a zoo and treat the person, our fellow human, as if they were an animal, no, that couldn't be. But in those times, it seemed to be the most natural thing to happen. And I was very interested in the idea of the innocence¹¹. The idea that here are all these people who look at something terrible that's happening and don't realize it. And that of course is very relevant to our time.

MARTIN: Do you feel that - well, in fact, let me just read a passage, which again, doesn't give - you're giving a lot away. So I don't really feel guilty anymore of giving away...

DORFMAN: OK, give it away all you want.

MARTIN: You say that he learns that - there's a passage in here which I want to read which impresses - has impressed a number of people who've read the book. It says that each human contains within himself, within herself, all their ancestors, a trove¹² of what was seen and heard and smelled and touched, residues¹³ of certain experiences that drastically impress them, pressed into them, expressed who they were. We encompass¹⁴ in some tangle¹⁵ of our DNA⁷. You know, now for some people that's going to be a very...

DORFMAN: A silent documentation...

MARTIN: Yeah.

DORFMAN: ...Of an incessant¹⁶ hidden past.

MARTIN: But, well, for some people that is a very inspiring and uplifting message. I mean, it is a source of great strength for some people. But there is a very human tendency to want to only look at the part where everybody was kind of triumphant¹⁷ and good and not look at the parts that were, say, hateful and oppressive and that benefited from other people's, you know, suffering. And I think that that is kind of something we're grappling with now, aren't we? I mean, with...

DORFMAN: ...We are.

MARTIN: ...All this we talk about monuments and memorials and what should happen to them. So let me ask you, do you feel - and some of these confrontations¹⁸ about memory have become very violent and very ugly. And so I'm wondering as a person, you know, you teach at Duke, for example, which is grappling with this in its own way. Do you feel encouraged by the kinds of conversations that are now happening, or are you discouraged by them?

DORFMAN: I think the conversations about the past are always necessary. I think it's very dangerous to get stuck in the past. You know, I mean, to say well we bring down a statue and that will end what happened. Because I think that the stone is not what matters. I think the soul is what matters. I think that the way in which we can transform that past by changing the future, by changing our attitude.

MARTIN: There's another kind of history and reckoning I want to discuss. I mean, your work in many ways - this is your signature work "Death And The Maiden" was made into a film, which was directed by Roman Polanski, who, as I think many people know, left the U.S. because as a 43-year-old man, he raped a 13-year-old girl and fled the country before he could be sentenced. So now all these years later, the academy has - the Academy of Motion Picture Arts has stripped him of its membership and has stripped him of its awards that he was honored with previously¹⁹. Now that we're talking about, you know, memory and reckoning with the past, now I'd like to ask you, what are your thoughts about this?

DORFMAN: Well, you know, when "Death And The Maiden" opened, I had my pick of directors, and I chose Roman. And one of the reasons why I chose him is because he could be he could understand being a victim. He had watched his mother being taken away. He had lived under the Nazis²⁰, under the Communists as well. He had been persecuted²¹ himself, but he was also a victimizer. He was also a perpetrator and he was also, of course, as the third character in the film he was also a bystander. He'd also watch these things happening. He knew what it was to not take sides in relation to that.

So he could identify with all three of the main characters, and as an artist, I'm looking for somebody was able to do that. Now do I think that that he needs to pay and atone²² for that? Yes. I think that many, many artists, and I include myself in that, are not perfect. We are imperfect beings...

MARTIN: So...

DORFMAN: ...As I think...

MARTIN: ...You're saying...

DORFMAN: ...Most of us are.

MARTIN: ...You picked him in part because he was a rapist?

DORFMAN: No, no, no.

MARTIN: Is that what you're saying?

DORFMAN: No, I'm not saying that. No. I'm saying that he had experience - he had experiences which made him understand each of the characters. I didn't say, oh, let me find who the latest rapist is and let me direct the film. The film is about rape² and we talked about this. We talked about...

MARTIN: You did.

DORFMAN: ...This.

MARTIN: I was interested in what he said...

DORFMAN: No, no...

MARTIN: ...About that.

DORFMAN: ...We talked about it. And he said, you know, I've paid my price. So, it's not that I chose Roman because he had raped a young girl, right? It turned out that the director who knew about telstraphobia (ph), knew about terror, knew how to direct actors, and could do this in a way that I felt was exactly the way it needed to be done, it turned out that he had committed an atrocity²³ in the past.

MARTIN: From where I sit, it makes me wonder whether you just didn't take that very seriously as a moral question at that time.

DORFMAN: No, I took it as a very serious question because I'd had many of my friends who have been raped. I mean, once again...

MARTIN: What do you think about other people though who are very much a part of the public conversation now who - Harvey Weinstein, for example, has certainly made some extremely impactful films, has brought a number of women into - has made sure that they had roles, has elevated their careers in some profound...

DORFMAN: And stopped many...

MARTIN: ...Ways. And also...

DORFMAN: And stopped many others.

MARTIN: And stopped many others. And there is - I think the evidence is very clear that he is a serious...

DORFMAN: A serial²⁴...

MARTIN: ...Sexual predator²⁵.

DORFMAN: Right.

MARTIN: A serial predator and yet he has this whole body of work. So, I'm ask - I'm interested in you as an artist and as an artist who has willfully engaged with another artist who you acknowledge is a person who has committed a crime. What is your get - what is your thought about how should we - how should we think about this now? What should we do? I mean, is this an each individual - how should we engage with this question right now?

DORFMAN: I think it's a very disturbing and difficult question to answer. I don't have the answer. I would say, modestly, that in "Darwin's Ghost," I give some sort of a answer to - an answer to that, meaning there are atrocities²⁶ that have been committed. There are terrible things that are committed. Now, what I would like is for the perpetrators to be brought to justice, if possible. If justice cannot be achieved, more important than justice, is that the person who has committed those crimes should repent²⁷ of them and be able to change very significantly. If you don't believe in the redemption, then there's no way out.

On the other hand, we have to find a way of helping²⁸ the victims because they're much more important than perpetrators. You know, I have felt terrible terrible hatred²⁹ for the people who did terrible things to the country where I call my own really very often and this country as well. But I don't think - you know, I don't think that this is something that will - the hatred, the rage, can help you survive but they - it cannot help you to grow.

MARTIN: That is Ariel Dorfman. His latest novel, "Darwin's Ghosts" is out now. Ariel Dorfman, thank you so much for speaking with us.

DORFMAN: Well, thank you for asking me about Roman. You know, because it's the first time anybody asked me about that and I've been dealing³⁰ with this and I'm thinking about it, you know, very, very often.

1 maiden   

n.少女，处女；adj.未婚的，纯洁的，无经验的

参考例句：

• The prince fell in love with a fair young maiden.王子爱上了一位年轻美丽的少女。
• The aircraft makes its maiden flight tomorrow.这架飞机明天首航。

2 rape   

n.抢夺，掠夺，强奸；vt.掠夺，抢夺，强奸

参考例句：

• The rape of the countryside had a profound ravage on them.对乡村的掠夺给他们造成严重创伤。
• He was brought to court and charged with rape.他被带到法庭并被指控犯有强奸罪。

3 raped   

v.以暴力夺取，强夺( rape的过去式和过去分词 )；强奸

参考例句：

• A young woman was brutally raped in her own home. 一名年轻女子在自己家中惨遭强暴。 来自辞典例句
• We got stick together, or we will be having our women raped. 我们得团结一致，不然我们的妻女就会遭到蹂躏。 来自辞典例句

4 emeritus   

adj.名誉退休的

参考例句：

• "Perhaps I can introduce Mr.Lake Kirby,an emeritus professor from Washington University?"请允许我介绍华盛顿大学名誉教授莱克柯尔比先生。
• He will continue as chairman emeritus.他将会继续担任荣誉主席。

5 premise   

n.前提；v.提论，预述

参考例句：

• Let me premise my argument with a bit of history.让我引述一些史实作为我立论的前提。
• We can deduce a conclusion from the premise.我们可以从这个前提推出结论。

6 indigenous   

adj.土产的，土生土长的，本地的

参考例句：

• Each country has its own indigenous cultural tradition.每个国家都有自己本土的文化传统。
• Indians were the indigenous inhabitants of America.印第安人是美洲的土著居民。

7 DNA   

(缩)deoxyribonucleic acid 脱氧核糖核酸

参考例句：

• DNA is stored in the nucleus of a cell.脱氧核糖核酸储存于细胞的细胞核里。
• Gene mutations are alterations in the DNA code.基因突变是指DNA密码的改变。

8 imprisoned   

下狱，监禁( imprison的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• He was imprisoned for two concurrent terms of 30 months and 18 months. 他被判处30个月和18个月的监禁，合并执行。
• They were imprisoned for possession of drugs. 他们因拥有毒品而被监禁。

9 aboriginals   

（某国的）公民( aboriginal的名词复数 )； 土著人特征； 土生动物（或植物）

参考例句：

• He remained fascinated by the Aboriginals' tales. 他一直对澳大利亚土著居民的传说极感兴趣。
• They drove the aboriginals out of their lands at sword point. 他们以武力将土著人赶出他们的家园。

10 abducted   

劫持，诱拐( abduct的过去式和过去分词 )； 使（肢体等）外展

参考例句：

• Detectives have not ruled out the possibility that she was abducted. 侦探尚未排除她被绑架的可能性。
• The kid was abducted at the gate of kindergarten. 那小孩在幼儿园大门口被绑架走了。

11 innocence   

n.无罪；天真；无害

参考例句：

• There was a touching air of innocence about the boy.这个男孩有一种令人感动的天真神情。
• The accused man proved his innocence of the crime.被告人经证实无罪。

12 trove   

n.被发现的东西，收藏的东西

参考例句：

• He assembled a rich trove of Chinese porcelain.他收集了一批中国瓷器。
• The gallery is a treasure trove of medieval art.这个画廊是中世纪艺术的宝库。

13 residues   

n.剩余，余渣( residue的名词复数 )；剩余财产；剩数

参考例句：

• pesticide residues in fruit and vegetables 残留在水果和蔬菜中的杀虫剂
• All organic and metallic residues on the wafers must be removed. 片子上所有的有机和金属残留物均必须清除。 来自辞典例句

14 encompass   

vt.围绕，包围；包含，包括；完成

参考例句：

• The course will encompass physics,chemistry and biology.课程将包括物理、化学和生物学。
• The project will encompass rural and underdeveloped areas in China.这项工程将覆盖中国的农村和不发达地区。

15 tangle   

n.纠缠；缠结；混乱；v.(使)缠绕；变乱

参考例句：

• I shouldn't tangle with Peter.He is bigger than me.我不应该与彼特吵架。他的块头比我大。
• If I were you, I wouldn't tangle with them.我要是你，我就不跟他们争吵。

16 incessant   

adj.不停的，连续的

参考例句：

• We have had incessant snowfall since yesterday afternoon.从昨天下午开始就持续不断地下雪。
• She is tired of his incessant demands for affection.她厌倦了他对感情的不断索取。

17 triumphant   

adj.胜利的，成功的；狂欢的，喜悦的

参考例句：

• The army made a triumphant entry into the enemy's capital.部队胜利地进入了敌方首都。
• There was a positively triumphant note in her voice.她的声音里带有一种极为得意的语气。

18 confrontations   

n.对抗，对抗的事物( confrontation的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• At times, this potential has escalated into actual confrontations. 有时，这一矛盾升级为实际的对抗。 来自英汉非文学 - 行政法
• These confrontations and uncertainties were bing played out for the first time on a global scale. 所有这一切对抗和不稳定，第一次在全球范围内得到充分的表演。 来自辞典例句

19 previously   

adv.以前，先前（地）

参考例句：

• The bicycle tyre blew out at a previously damaged point.自行车胎在以前损坏过的地方又爆开了。
• Let me digress for a moment and explain what had happened previously.让我岔开一会儿，解释原先发生了什么。

20 Nazis   

n.（德国的）纳粹党员( Nazi的名词复数 )；纳粹主义

参考例句：

• The Nazis worked them over with gun butts. 纳粹分子用枪托毒打他们。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• The Nazis were responsible for the mass murder of Jews during World War Ⅱ. 纳粹必须为第二次世界大战中对犹太人的大屠杀负责。 来自《简明英汉词典》

21 persecuted   

（尤指宗教或政治信仰的）迫害(~sb. for sth.)( persecute的过去式和过去分词 )； 烦扰，困扰或骚扰某人

参考例句：

• Throughout history, people have been persecuted for their religious beliefs. 人们因宗教信仰而受迫害的情况贯穿了整个历史。
• Members of these sects are ruthlessly persecuted and suppressed. 这些教派的成员遭到了残酷的迫害和镇压。

22 atone   

v.赎罪，补偿

参考例句：

• He promised to atone for his crime.他承诺要赎自己的罪。
• Blood must atone for blood.血债要用血来还。

23 atrocity   

n.残暴，暴行

参考例句：

• These people are guilty of acts of great atrocity.这些人犯有令人发指的暴行。
• I am shocked by the atrocity of this man's crimes.这个人行凶手段残忍狠毒使我震惊。

24 serial   

n.连本影片，连本电视节目；adj.连续的

参考例句：

• A new serial is starting on television tonight.今晚电视开播一部新的电视连续剧。
• Can you account for the serial failures in our experiment?你能解释我们实验屡屡失败的原因吗？

25 predator   

n.捕食其它动物的动物；捕食者

参考例句：

• The final part of this chapter was devoted to a brief summary of predator species.本章最后部分简要总结了食肉动物。
• Komodo dragon is the largest living lizard and a fearsome predator.科摩多龙是目前存在的最大蜥蜴，它是一种令人恐惧的捕食性动物。

26 atrocities   

n.邪恶，暴行( atrocity的名词复数 )；滔天大罪

参考例句：

• They were guilty of the most barbarous and inhuman atrocities. 他们犯有最野蛮、最灭绝人性的残暴罪行。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• The enemy's atrocities made one boil with anger. 敌人的暴行令人发指。 来自《现代汉英综合大词典》

27 repent   

v.悔悟，悔改，忏悔，后悔

参考例句：

• He has nothing to repent of.他没有什么要懊悔的。
• Remission of sins is promised to those who repent.悔罪者可得到赦免。

28 helping   

n.食物的一份&adj.帮助人的，辅助的

参考例句：

• The poor children regularly pony up for a second helping of my hamburger. 那些可怜的孩子们总是要求我把我的汉堡包再给他们一份。
• By doing this, they may at times be helping to restore competition. 这样一来, 他在某些时候,有助于竞争的加强。

29 hatred   

n.憎恶，憎恨，仇恨

参考例句：

• He looked at me with hatred in his eyes.他以憎恨的眼光望着我。
• The old man was seized with burning hatred for the fascists.老人对法西斯主义者充满了仇恨。

30 dealing   

n.经商方法，待人态度

参考例句：

• This store has an excellent reputation for fair dealing.该商店因买卖公道而享有极高的声誉。
• His fair dealing earned our confidence.他的诚实的行为获得我们的信任。