美国国家公共电台 NPR George Soros: Open Societies Are Under Threat

 

MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:

Social media and artificial intelligence pose serious threats to open democratic societies, particularly when used by authoritarian¹ governments to manipulate the public. That's just one of the takeaways from a new book just out by billionaire and philanthropist George Soros. The book is called "In Defense² Of Open Society." Soros sat down to talk with us about the book and more at his home in Manhattan a few days ago.

GEORGE SOROS: When I got involved in what I call political philanthropy some 40 years ago, the open society idea was on the ascendance. Closed societies are opening up, and now open societies are on the defensive³. And dictatorships are on the rise.

MARTIN: Soros is now 89 years old. The billions he's spent around the world to support what he calls civil society in the broadest sense have made him a favorite target of conservatives worldwide. Soros made it clear he considers President Trump⁴ a threat to democracy. In our conversation, Soros said while it would be preferable for the voters, rather than lawmakers to remove Trump from office, he felt Democrats⁵ in Congress had no choice but to proceed with the impeachment⁷ inquiry⁸. But Soros said even if the House does vote to impeach⁶, he's not optimistic about the Senate voting to convict.

SOROS: I don't think that it will be actually successful because he has come to dominate the Republican Party, that even though there are increasing numbers of Republican senators who are very disturbed by the results of his actions, I don't think there will be a two-thirds majority in the Senate to convict him.

MARTIN: Apart from that, do you see yourself as having any role right now? I mean, you, like Nancy Pelosi, agree that impeachment is divisive. You know, you feel that perhaps they had - the Democrats had no choice. But do you feel like you have any other role in the current moment?

SOROS: My foundations, and I'm personally very much engaged in. fighting voter suppression, trying to get a proper census⁹ and things like that that will lead to a fair election because those conditions are also endangered by the current president.

MARTIN: Well, this makes me wonder, though. I mean, this year marks four decades since you began what you call your political philanthropy. You've poured billions of dollars into causes that you support around the world. You know, certainly in this country, many people understand your work in criminal justice reform and also trying to build civil society elsewhere. And it does make me wonder whether you feel that you have failed, given the trends that we now see.

SOROS: Well, I have to admit that the tide has turned against me. But I don't think that I have failed because I stand for the principles that I believed then and I continue to believe now, which is the open society. And I was very happy to get involved when things were good, but if you really have principles that you believe in, then you have to fight for them, win or lose. That's the big difference, by the way. I made my money in the stock market, financial markets. And there I'm - I was investing in order to make money. But when I set up my foundation, I invested in it in order to promote my principles, win or lose. That's the big difference between making money and having principles.

MARTIN: To that end, you've identified the part of the, you know, part of the source of these populist movements, some of them far-right populist movements in part to the 2008 worldwide economic decline. You know, in response to that, I mean, the whole long-term trend of wealth inequality in this country predates that. But in response to that, a number of the more prominent Democratic candidates like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are arguing for much more extensive taxation¹⁰ of very wealthy individuals. Do you agree?

SOROS: I supported that even though I'm one of those people who would be subject to the taxing because the inequality that has been produced actually mainly by the IT platforms and those who own those platforms carried inequality to totally unacceptable levels. And wealth tax is a very good way to reduce it.

MARTIN: Do you have any final thoughts as you - you're nearly 90 years old. You've been at this this work of both of trying to advance open society for some four decades now. Do you have any final thoughts about what you would wish us to think about or how you would like us to think about you and your work?

SOROS: I try to explain my views in my book. And I think the world is very complicated. It's more complicated than our ability to fully¹¹ understand it. So there is no final answer. I would say fortunately so because this world would become like heaven, and it would be very boring.

MARTIN: George Soros. Your latest book is "In Defense Of Open Society." Thank you so much for speaking with us today.

SOROS: My pleasure.

1 authoritarian   

n./adj.专制(的)，专制主义者，独裁主义者

参考例句：

• Foreign diplomats suspect him of authoritarian tendencies.各国外交官怀疑他有着独裁主义倾向。
• The authoritarian policy wasn't proved to be a success.独裁主义的政策证明并不成功。

2 defense   

n.防御，保卫；[pl.]防务工事；辩护，答辩

参考例句：

• The accused has the right to defense.被告人有权获得辩护。
• The war has impacted the area with military and defense workers.战争使那个地区挤满了军队和防御工程人员。

3 defensive   

adj.防御的；防卫的；防守的

参考例句：

• Their questions about the money put her on the defensive.他们问到钱的问题，使她警觉起来。
• The Government hastily organized defensive measures against the raids.政府急忙布置了防卫措施抵御空袭。

4 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

5 democrats   

n.民主主义者，民主人士( democrat的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• The Democrats held a pep rally on Capitol Hill yesterday. 民主党昨天在国会山召开了竞选誓师大会。
• The democrats organize a filibuster in the senate. 民主党党员组织了阻挠议事。 来自《简明英汉词典》

6 impeach   

v.弹劾；检举

参考例句：

• We must impeach the judge for taking bribes.我们一定要检举法官收受贿赂。
• The committee decided to impeach the President.委员会决定弹劾总统。

7 impeachment   

n.弹劾；控告；怀疑

参考例句：

• Impeachment is considered a drastic measure in the United States.在美国，弹劾被视为一种非常激烈的措施。
• The verdict resulting from his impeachment destroyed his political career.他遭弹劾后得到的判决毁了他的政治生涯。

8 inquiry   

n.打听，询问，调查，查问

参考例句：

• Many parents have been pressing for an inquiry into the problem.许多家长迫切要求调查这个问题。
• The field of inquiry has narrowed down to five persons.调查的范围已经缩小到只剩5个人了。

9 census   

n.(官方的)人口调查，人口普查

参考例句：

• A census of population is taken every ten years.人口普查每10年进行一次。
• The census is taken one time every four years in our country.我国每四年一次人口普查。

10 taxation   

n.征税，税收，税金

参考例句：

• He made a number of simplifications in the taxation system.他在税制上作了一些简化。
• The increase of taxation is an important fiscal policy.增税是一项重要的财政政策。

11 fully   

adv.完全地，全部地，彻底地；充分地

参考例句：

• The doctor asked me to breathe in,then to breathe out fully.医生让我先吸气，然后全部呼出。
• They soon became fully integrated into the local community.他们很快就完全融入了当地人的圈子。