美国国家公共电台 NPR Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Wants America To Talk About Poverty

 

STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is in line with her party for the moment. Just last weekend, the New York lawmaker was attacking Democrats². She said the party's failure to impeach³ the president was a bigger national scandal than the president himself. Yesterday, Ocasio-Cortez approved as Speaker Nancy Pelosi was moving toward impeachment⁴. Some Democrats fear political damage from acting⁵. Ocasio-Cortez argues that not acting would be worse.

ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: If we don't pursue impeachment and all of those people who turned out in 2018 to elect a Democratic majority thinking that that Democratic majority would be a check on the runaway⁶ actions of this administration, and they see that they do everything they can to organize turnout and then we do nothing, that deeply threatens a demoralization of American voters.

INSKEEP: Ocasio-Cortez is the democratic socialist⁷, just shy of 30, who unseated a top Democrat¹ in 2018. She's soared to prominence⁸ as a critic of the president and sometimes of Democrats. She pushed the party on climate, throwing her sudden fame behind the Green New Deal. And today, she releases anti-poverty proposals. Her bills would open social benefits to all people, even undocumented immigrants. She also calls to change the way the federal government measures poverty. She wants the federal poverty line to be higher in some places than others.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: You may be making a certain amount in New York City or in Washington, D.C., that is enough in other parts of the country, but you are effectively living in poverty, and so we need to account for geographic⁹ variation as well.

INSKEEP: It seems to me that the things that you like about that proposal are the very things that make it politically difficult.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Absolutely.

INSKEEP: A lot more people would be on Medicaid, for example, and other federal benefits because the poverty line would be higher. People in New York, which you represent, would be dealing¹⁰ with a different poverty line and getting more benefits than people in Alabama. Do you think you could ever get that done?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Well, I think one of the things that we can get done is build popular support in acknowledging how bad the problem already is. In doing so, we can actually begin to fundamentally address those problems. So it's not an issue of getting more people into federal programs. But if we can acknowledge how many Americans are actually in poverty, I think that we can start to address some of the more systemic issues in our economy.

INSKEEP: But you're going to get a lot more people into federal programs. That's what would happen if you made that one change.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: It would absolutely make more people eligible¹¹ for federal help. But, frankly¹², I think a lot of those people - there are a lot of people that need help right now.

INSKEEP: Why change the law to assure social benefits will go to people, regardless of immigration status?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Immigrants contribute to our country economically. Immigrants pay taxes. And when we begin to unify¹³ our systems, I think that we will get more cohesive¹⁴ immigration policy, economic policy, political policy. I think that there's a political argument, an economic argument, a moral argument, for doing so. And I think it sends a message that if you contribute to our society, you should benefit from our society.

INSKEEP: Now you're correct that immigrants pay taxes, and even people who are here without legal status often end up paying taxes. And yet, you can see the objection to that. Why should someone who is here illegally be able to claim Medicare, to claim Social Security, who knows what else?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Well, I mean, why should a billionaire who evades taxes collect Social Security, too? I think that what we can do is we can tighten¹⁵ up our systems and increase accountability. But what this says is that we will not discriminate¹⁶ solely¹⁷ based on immigration status.

INSKEEP: Well, that's really interesting because this is a talking point of President Trump¹⁸. Illegal immigrants, as he would phrase it, are costing us money, they're using up all these services, we can't afford them, we're paying for them throughout their lives. It's not even been true for the most part.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yeah, it's not true.

INSKEEP: You want to make it true. You want to say they should be able to claim benefits.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Well, I think it's not making it true. Because even if you look at Federal Reserve studies that said if we did this, immigrants would still pose a net positive contribution in terms of economic productivity to the government. I mean, we have been on the defense¹⁹ of Trump's rhetoric²⁰, false rhetoric, for so long. And I think it's about time that we challenge it.

INSKEEP: The last time you and I sat here, you were about to present your version of the Green New Deal. It had a huge effect on public conversation and even the presidential campaign, but it hasn't been passed. Does that count as a success?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: I think it does count as a success, absolutely. Because the Green New Deal, first and foremost, is a resolution. It's not a bill. If we passed it, it would merely express the sense of Congress to meet these ambitious goals. And so if it were passed, I think it would be a profound action by the House to acknowledge the crisis. But I think the conversation that the Green New Deal sparked - like, if I had to decide, would I rather have the resolution passed, or would I have rather preferred we start a national conversation about the urgency of the climate crisis, I would have chosen the latter every single time.

INSKEEP: Let me circle back to impeachment. When you made that critique of your party, that your party's inaction was getting to be more scandalous than the president himself, where does Speaker Pelosi fit in that critique?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Well, I think where we have to see is that we have to be very careful about where the balance of the party is. So being a speaker is not - I don't think it's a very enviable job. You're kind of herding²¹ cats. But I think we need to take progressives in the party as seriously as we're taking conservatives in the party.

INSKEEP: Is Speaker Pelosi not doing that?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: I think the balance of the caucus²² doesn't do that. But I think - that I think is the issue. See, the thing that's tough is that you have a scale. Like, if the speaker is acting as a scale, we also need to add more weight to the progressive caucus.

INSKEEP: Is that why you have been supporting some primary challenges of existing Democratic lawmakers?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yeah, I think that's definitely one rationale for it.

INSKEEP: You think that the way to change the way the speaker behaves is to change the membership of the Democratic caucus...

OCASIO-CORTEZ: We have to change the balance of the party, yeah.

INSKEEP: Representative Ocasio-Cortez, thank you so much.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

INSKEEP: Now, we checked her statement on Federal Reserve studies of immigrants. Studies do find immigrants to be an economic benefit, though they do not distinguish between those with or without documents.

1 democrat   

n.民主主义者，民主人士；民主党党员

参考例句：

• The Democrat and the Public criticized each other.民主党人和共和党人互相攻击。
• About two years later,he was defeated by Democrat Jimmy Carter.大约两年后，他被民主党人杰米卡特击败。

2 democrats   

n.民主主义者，民主人士( democrat的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• The Democrats held a pep rally on Capitol Hill yesterday. 民主党昨天在国会山召开了竞选誓师大会。
• The democrats organize a filibuster in the senate. 民主党党员组织了阻挠议事。 来自《简明英汉词典》

3 impeach   

v.弹劾；检举

参考例句：

• We must impeach the judge for taking bribes.我们一定要检举法官收受贿赂。
• The committee decided to impeach the President.委员会决定弹劾总统。

4 impeachment   

n.弹劾；控告；怀疑

参考例句：

• Impeachment is considered a drastic measure in the United States.在美国，弹劾被视为一种非常激烈的措施。
• The verdict resulting from his impeachment destroyed his political career.他遭弹劾后得到的判决毁了他的政治生涯。

5 acting   

n.演戏，行为，假装；adj.代理的，临时的，演出用的

参考例句：

• Ignore her,she's just acting.别理她，她只是假装的。
• During the seventies,her acting career was in eclipse.在七十年代，她的表演生涯黯然失色。

6 runaway   

n.逃走的人，逃亡，亡命者；adj.逃亡的，逃走的

参考例句：

• The police have not found the runaway to date.警察迄今没抓到逃犯。
• He was praised for bringing up the runaway horse.他勒住了脱缰之马受到了表扬。

7 socialist   

n.社会主义者；adj.社会主义的

参考例句：

• China is a socialist country,and a developing country as well.中国是一个社会主义国家，也是一个发展中国家。
• His father was an ardent socialist.他父亲是一个热情的社会主义者。

8 prominence   

n.突出；显著；杰出；重要

参考例句：

• He came to prominence during the World Cup in Italy.他在意大利的世界杯赛中声名鹊起。
• This young fashion designer is rising to prominence.这位年轻的时装设计师的声望越来越高。

9 geographic   

adj.地理学的，地理的

参考例句：

• The city's success owes much to its geographic position. 这座城市的成功很大程度上归功于它的地理位置。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• Environmental problems pay no heed to these geographic lines. 环境问题并不理会这些地理界限。 来自英汉非文学 - 环境法 - 环境法

10 dealing   

n.经商方法，待人态度

参考例句：

• This store has an excellent reputation for fair dealing.该商店因买卖公道而享有极高的声誉。
• His fair dealing earned our confidence.他的诚实的行为获得我们的信任。

11 eligible   

adj.有条件被选中的；(尤指婚姻等)合适(意)的

参考例句：

• He is an eligible young man.他是一个合格的年轻人。
• Helen married an eligible bachelor.海伦嫁给了一个中意的单身汉。

12 frankly   

adv.坦白地，直率地；坦率地说

参考例句：

• To speak frankly, I don't like the idea at all.老实说，我一点也不赞成这个主意。
• Frankly speaking, I'm not opposed to reform.坦率地说，我不反对改革。

13 unify   

vt.使联合，统一；使相同，使一致

参考例句：

• How can we unify such scattered islands into a nation?我们怎么才能把如此分散的岛屿统一成一个国家呢？
• It is difficult to imagine how the North and South could ever agree on a formula to unify the divided peninsula.很难想象南北双方在统一半岛的方案上究竟怎样才能达成一致。

14 cohesive   

adj.有粘着力的；有结合力的；凝聚性的

参考例句：

• She sealed the parcel with cohesive tape.她用粘胶带把包裹封起来。
• The author skillfully fuses these fragments into a cohesive whole.作者将这些片断巧妙地结合成一个连贯的整体。

15 tighten   

v.(使)变紧；(使)绷紧

参考例句：

• Turn the screw to the right to tighten it.向右转动螺钉把它拧紧。
• Some countries tighten monetary policy to avoid inflation.一些国家实行紧缩银根的货币政策，以避免通货膨胀。

16 discriminate   

v.区别，辨别，区分；有区别地对待

参考例句：

• You must learn to discriminate between facts and opinions.你必须学会把事实和看法区分出来。
• They can discriminate hundreds of colours.他们能分辨上百种颜色。

17 solely   

adv.仅仅，唯一地

参考例句：

• Success should not be measured solely by educational achievement.成功与否不应只用学业成绩来衡量。
• The town depends almost solely on the tourist trade.这座城市几乎完全靠旅游业维持。

18 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

19 defense   

n.防御，保卫；[pl.]防务工事；辩护，答辩

参考例句：

• The accused has the right to defense.被告人有权获得辩护。
• The war has impacted the area with military and defense workers.战争使那个地区挤满了军队和防御工程人员。

20 rhetoric   

n.修辞学，浮夸之言语

参考例句：

• Do you know something about rhetoric?你懂点修辞学吗？
• Behind all the rhetoric,his relations with the army are dangerously poised.在冠冕堂皇的言辞背后，他和军队的关系岌岌可危。

21 herding   

中畜群

参考例句：

• The little boy is herding the cattle. 这个小男孩在放牛。
• They have been herding cattle on the tableland for generations. 他们世世代代在这高原上放牧。

22 caucus   

n.秘密会议；干部会议；v.（参加）干部开会议

参考例句：

• This multi-staged caucus takes several months.这个多级会议常常历时好几个月。
• It kept the Democratic caucus from fragmenting.它也使得民主党的核心小组避免了土崩瓦解的危险。