pbs高端访谈:数千名民众白宫前游行抗议输油管道计划

 　　JUDY WOODRUFF:So, you're saying it would go to other countries and then come to the U.S. by ship or ...

　　SCOTT SEGAL:Well, I would say there are two options. It's either going to go to China or come to the United States. And in either event, the carbon footprint will be deeper.

　　The further point about whether or not an oil pipeline¹ somehow endangers the land upon which it crosses I think has been asked and answered so many times, it's no longer a relevant consideration. Look, the map of the United States is literally² a spider web of oil and product pipelines³. And ...

　　JUDY WOODRUFF:You're saying already?

　　SCOTT SEGAL:Already.

　　The fact of the matter is, the chances of sustaining a spill of oil out of an oil pipeline is one-quarter the amount of alternative forms of transportation, were we to take those oil pipelines away and take them in a different mechanism⁴.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF:Bob Deans, what about that second point first? There's already so many pipelines in the U.S., and the rate of spills or problems with that is so low.

　　BOB DEANS:Well, the reason we have these pipelines is because we have been addicted⁵ to fossil fuels for more than a century now.

　　We need to turn away from that. We need to begin using less oil. We're using 10 percent less now than we did when President Obama took office because we're using more renewables. We're more efficient. We need to continue investing and moving in that direction, not building more infrastructures⁶ to support the ruinous fossil fuels of the past that are driving and accelerating this climate disaster.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF:Do you want to respond to that?

　　SCOTT SEGAL:Sure.

　　We're using less oil now because we're in a recession. And the hope is -- in fact, the number one priority of President Obama is that we make an economic recovery and come out of that recession. The notion that we will depend on less efficient forms of energy like solar and wind exclusively or, worse yet, on energy conservation alone, at a time when we're trying to grow ourselves out of a recession, is unrealistic, is damaging to economy, and frankly⁷ will not be the alternative that will be chosen.

　　We're in an oil-based economy. And we should have the type of energy security which allows us to have defendable supply lines and not pay for our oil to those who want to do harm to the United States.

　　BOB DEANS:May I say something?

　　Clean energy jobs are now employing 3.1 million Americans around the country. That's according to the Bureau of Labor⁸ statistics. These jobs have grown almost out of nowhere over the past decade, at a time when we have lost 4.5 million manufacturing jobs. These jobs have been a bright spot in a tough economy for three million American families.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF:Let me ask you about the other points that he's raised. One is that the oil, if it doesn't come through this pipeline, it's going to eventually get to the U.S. anyway. And it's going to come through potentially dirtier sources that burn -- that use more carbon -- or expend⁹ more carbon, and the other argument, that if the U.S. doesn't use this oil, it's going to go to other countries anyway, that it's going to get used somewhere on the planet.

　　BOB DEANS:Well, here's the thing.

　　That -- these tar¹⁰ sands are boreal forests, one of the last wild places on the planet. We have already destroyed, made an industrial wasteland out of a part of that forest the size of Chicago. That needs to stop. Alberta, where these tar sands are, is a long way from Shanghai. That oil is not going to China, unless it goes out of the west coast of Canada. They won't build a pipeline there because the Canadian people don't want it crossing their farms, their salmon¹¹ streams, their native lands. And we respect that.

　　SCOTT SEGAL:No, the Canadians have already said they are in favor of a pipeline. The problem is not with the Canadian polity.

　　The problem here is with a few elite¹² environmentalist organizations that are trying to stop 20,000 jobs in construction, trying to stop a multiplier effect of many more jobs in the manufacturing sector¹³ and $20 billion dollars net contribution to the U.S. economy, all for very specious¹⁴ environmental and safety concerns.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF:How do you answer that?

　　BOB DEANS:Judy, complete nonsense.

　　We had 30-some-thousand people from all over the country assembled by the Washington Monument and marched to the people's house, the White House, to say -- I talked to these people. I was out there. There were people from New Orleans. They had come up all the way from Louisiana. There were people from Maine. There were people from Nebraska.

　　There were people from all over this country and from all walks of life, farmers, students, businessmen, folks who are saying we need to turn away from the fossil fuels of the past, invest in efficiency and renewables and build a 21st century economy on new fuels and ...

　　SCOTT SEGAL:And many, many, many more work in industry in the 20 industrial sectors¹⁵ which are energy-intensive and trade-exposed in this country that depend on the reliable and affordable¹⁶ supplies of energy.

　　Even the steelworkers who were opposed to this at one point now appear to be coming round and are likely to support the pipeline because they know the steel itself is sourced here in the United States.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF:Let me finally ask you both, what's at stake ultimately here, Scott Segal, if this pipeline is not built, in your view?

　　SCOTT SEGAL:Yes.

　　Well, in my view, the United States loses on the energy security front. The United States loses on the job creation front. The United States gains absolutely nothing from either a global climate change or a protection of wild areas, because we already have a dependence¹⁷ on these pipelines and a significant network of them. All that happens is the president becomes embarrassed in front of our number one trading partner, the Canadians, and all for no net benefit.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF:And what's at stake, from your perspective?

　　BOB DEANS:You know, the climate.

　　Judy, we just finished the hottest year on round in this country. We lost 50 percent of our corn across the heartland, 60 percent of our pasture lands. We had ranchers liquidating¹⁸ their herds¹⁹ from the Rocky Mountains to the Ohio River Valley because they couldn't afford to feed their cattle anymore.

　　We lost 130 Americans. We did $80 billion dollars worth of damage just from Hurricane Sandy. We have a crisis. This climate chaos²⁰ needs to end. And that's a conversation we can have with our friends in Canada because they're working like we are to reduce their carbon footprint. They're working like we are to improve renewables. They're working like we are to do more with less. We need to partner around that and create jobs of the future in Canada and the United States. We're going to do it.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF:Well, the debate over this pipeline extension goes on. And we thank you both for being here with us tonight.

　　Bob Deans, Scott Segal, we appreciate it.

　　SCOTT SEGAL:Thank you.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF:So, you're saying it would go to other countries and then come to the U.S. by ship or ...

　　SCOTT SEGAL:Well, I would say there are two options. It's either going to go to China or come to the United States. And in either event, the carbon footprint will be deeper.

　　The further point about whether or not an oil pipeline somehow endangers the land upon which it crosses I think has been asked and answered so many times, it's no longer a relevant consideration. Look, the map of the United States is literally a spider web of oil and product pipelines. And ...

　　JUDY WOODRUFF:You're saying already?

　　SCOTT SEGAL:Already.

　　The fact of the matter is, the chances of sustaining a spill of oil out of an oil pipeline is one-quarter the amount of alternative forms of transportation, were we to take those oil pipelines away and take them in a different mechanism.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF:Bob Deans, what about that second point first? There's already so many pipelines in the U.S., and the rate of spills or problems with that is so low.

　　BOB DEANS:Well, the reason we have these pipelines is because we have been addicted to fossil fuels for more than a century now.

　　We need to turn away from that. We need to begin using less oil. We're using 10 percent less now than we did when President Obama took office because we're using more renewables. We're more efficient. We need to continue investing and moving in that direction, not building more infrastructures to support the ruinous fossil fuels of the past that are driving and accelerating this climate disaster.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF:Do you want to respond to that?

　　SCOTT SEGAL:Sure.

　　We're using less oil now because we're in a recession. And the hope is -- in fact, the number one priority of President Obama is that we make an economic recovery and come out of that recession. The notion that we will depend on less efficient forms of energy like solar and wind exclusively or, worse yet, on energy conservation alone, at a time when we're trying to grow ourselves out of a recession, is unrealistic, is damaging to economy, and frankly will not be the alternative that will be chosen.

　　We're in an oil-based economy. And we should have the type of energy security which allows us to have defendable supply lines and not pay for our oil to those who want to do harm to the United States.

　　BOB DEANS:May I say something?

　　Clean energy jobs are now employing 3.1 million Americans around the country. That's according to the Bureau of Labor statistics. These jobs have grown almost out of nowhere over the past decade, at a time when we have lost 4.5 million manufacturing jobs. These jobs have been a bright spot in a tough economy for three million American families.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF:Let me ask you about the other points that he's raised. One is that the oil, if it doesn't come through this pipeline, it's going to eventually get to the U.S. anyway. And it's going to come through potentially dirtier sources that burn -- that use more carbon -- or expend more carbon, and the other argument, that if the U.S. doesn't use this oil, it's going to go to other countries anyway, that it's going to get used somewhere on the planet.

　　BOB DEANS:Well, here's the thing.

　　That -- these tar sands are boreal forests, one of the last wild places on the planet. We have already destroyed, made an industrial wasteland out of a part of that forest the size of Chicago. That needs to stop. Alberta, where these tar sands are, is a long way from Shanghai. That oil is not going to China, unless it goes out of the west coast of Canada. They won't build a pipeline there because the Canadian people don't want it crossing their farms, their salmon streams, their native lands. And we respect that.

　　SCOTT SEGAL:No, the Canadians have already said they are in favor of a pipeline. The problem is not with the Canadian polity.

　　The problem here is with a few elite environmentalist organizations that are trying to stop 20,000 jobs in construction, trying to stop a multiplier effect of many more jobs in the manufacturing sector and $20 billion dollars net contribution to the U.S. economy, all for very specious environmental and safety concerns.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF:How do you answer that?

　　BOB DEANS:Judy, complete nonsense.

　　We had 30-some-thousand people from all over the country assembled by the Washington Monument and marched to the people's house, the White House, to say -- I talked to these people. I was out there. There were people from New Orleans. They had come up all the way from Louisiana. There were people from Maine. There were people from Nebraska.

　　There were people from all over this country and from all walks of life, farmers, students, businessmen, folks who are saying we need to turn away from the fossil fuels of the past, invest in efficiency and renewables and build a 21st century economy on new fuels and ...

　　SCOTT SEGAL:And many, many, many more work in industry in the 20 industrial sectors which are energy-intensive and trade-exposed in this country that depend on the reliable and affordable supplies of energy.

　　Even the steelworkers who were opposed to this at one point now appear to be coming round and are likely to support the pipeline because they know the steel itself is sourced here in the United States.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF:Let me finally ask you both, what's at stake ultimately here, Scott Segal, if this pipeline is not built, in your view?

　　SCOTT SEGAL:Yes.

　　Well, in my view, the United States loses on the energy security front. The United States loses on the job creation front. The United States gains absolutely nothing from either a global climate change or a protection of wild areas, because we already have a dependence on these pipelines and a significant network of them. All that happens is the president becomes embarrassed in front of our number one trading partner, the Canadians, and all for no net benefit.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF:And what's at stake, from your perspective?

　　BOB DEANS:You know, the climate.

　　Judy, we just finished the hottest year on round in this country. We lost 50 percent of our corn across the heartland, 60 percent of our pasture lands. We had ranchers liquidating their herds from the Rocky Mountains to the Ohio River Valley because they couldn't afford to feed their cattle anymore.

　　We lost 130 Americans. We did $80 billion dollars worth of damage just from Hurricane Sandy. We have a crisis. This climate chaos needs to end. And that's a conversation we can have with our friends in Canada because they're working like we are to reduce their carbon footprint. They're working like we are to improve renewables. They're working like we are to do more with less. We need to partner around that and create jobs of the future in Canada and the United States. We're going to do it.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF:Well, the debate over this pipeline extension goes on. And we thank you both for being here with us tonight.

　　Bob Deans, Scott Segal, we appreciate it.

　　SCOTT SEGAL:Thank you.

1 pipeline   

n.管道，管线

参考例句：

• The pipeline supplies Jordan with 15 per cent of its crude oil.该管道供给约旦15%的原油。
• A single pipeline serves all the houses with water.一条单管路给所有的房子供水。

2 literally   

adv.照字面意义，逐字地；确实

参考例句：

• He translated the passage literally.他逐字逐句地翻译这段文字。
• Sometimes she would not sit down till she was literally faint.有时候，她不走到真正要昏厥了，决不肯坐下来。

3 pipelines   

管道( pipeline的名词复数 )； 输油管道； 在考虑（或规划、准备） 中； 在酿中

参考例句：

• The oil is carried to the oil refinery by pipelines. 石油通过输油管输送到炼油厂。
• The oil carried in pipelines. 石油用管道输送。

4 mechanism   

n.机械装置；机构，结构

参考例句：

• The bones and muscles are parts of the mechanism of the body.骨骼和肌肉是人体的组成部件。
• The mechanism of the machine is very complicated.这台机器的结构是非常复杂的。

5 addicted   

adj.沉溺于....的，对...上瘾的

参考例句：

• He was addicted to heroin at the age of 17.他17岁的时候对海洛因上了瘾。
• She's become addicted to love stories.她迷上了爱情小说。

6 infrastructures   

n.基础设施( infrastructure的名词复数 )；基础结构；行政机构；秘密机构

参考例句：

• Public transportation termini and depots are important infrastructures for a city. 公交场站设施是城市重要的基础设施。 来自互联网
• The increasingly fast urbanization process requires more and more infrastructures. 我国城市化进程不断加快，对城市基础设施的需求也越来越大。 来自互联网

7 frankly   

adv.坦白地，直率地；坦率地说

参考例句：

• To speak frankly, I don't like the idea at all.老实说，我一点也不赞成这个主意。
• Frankly speaking, I'm not opposed to reform.坦率地说，我不反对改革。

8 labor   

n.劳动，努力，工作，劳工；分娩；vi.劳动，努力，苦干；vt.详细分析；麻烦

参考例句：

• We are never late in satisfying him for his labor.我们从不延误付给他劳动报酬。
• He was completely spent after two weeks of hard labor.艰苦劳动两周后，他已经疲惫不堪了。

9 expend   

vt.花费，消费，消耗

参考例句：

• Don't expend all your time on such a useless job.不要把时间消耗在这种无用的工作上。
• They expend all their strength in trying to climb out.他们费尽全力想爬出来。

10 tar   

n.柏油，焦油；vt.涂或浇柏油/焦油于

参考例句：

• The roof was covered with tar.屋顶涂抹了一层沥青。
• We use tar to make roads.我们用沥青铺路。

11 salmon   

n.鲑，大马哈鱼，橙红色的

参考例句：

• We saw a salmon jumping in the waterfall there.我们看见一条大马哈鱼在那边瀑布中跳跃。
• Do you have any fresh salmon in at the moment?现在有新鲜大马哈鱼卖吗？

12 elite   

n.精英阶层；实力集团；adj.杰出的，卓越的

参考例句：

• The power elite inside the government is controlling foreign policy.政府内部的一群握有实权的精英控制着对外政策。
• We have a political elite in this country.我们国家有一群政治精英。

13 sector   

n.部门，部分；防御地段，防区；扇形

参考例句：

• The export sector will aid the economic recovery. 出口产业将促进经济复苏。
• The enemy have attacked the British sector.敌人已进攻英国防区。

14 specious   

adj.似是而非的；adv.似是而非地

参考例句：

• Such talk is actually specious and groundless.这些话实际上毫无根据，似是而非的。
• It is unlikely that the Duke was convinced by such specious arguments.公爵不太可能相信这种似是而非的论点。

15 sectors   

n.部门( sector的名词复数 )；领域；防御地区；扇形

参考例句：

• Berlin was divided into four sectors after the war. 战后柏林分成了4 个区。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• Industry and agriculture are the two important sectors of the national economy. 工业和农业是国民经济的两个重要部门。 来自《现代汉英综合大词典》

16 affordable   

adj.支付得起的，不太昂贵的

参考例句：

• The rent for the four-roomed house is affordable.四居室房屋的房租付得起。
• There are few affordable apartments in big cities.在大城市中没有几所公寓是便宜的。

17 dependence   

n.依靠，依赖；信任，信赖；隶属

参考例句：

• Doctors keep trying to break her dependence of the drug.医生们尽力使她戒除毒瘾。
• He was freed from financial dependence on his parents.他在经济上摆脱了对父母的依赖。

18 liquidating   

v.清算( liquidate的现在分词 )；清除（某人）；清偿；变卖

参考例句：

• Liquidating collateral is clearly a second best source of repayment. Why? 抵押品显然并不是获得贷款偿还的最佳方法。为什么？ 来自互联网
• There are often costs and inconvenience associated with liquidating other assets. 这些资产变现时总须花费，也不方便。 来自互联网

19 herds   

兽群( herd的名词复数 )； 牧群； 人群； 群众

参考例句：

• Regularly at daybreak they drive their herds to the pasture. 每天天一亮他们就把牲畜赶到草场上去。
• There we saw herds of cows grazing on the pasture. 我们在那里看到一群群的牛在草地上吃草。

20 chaos   

n.混乱，无秩序

参考例句：

• After the failure of electricity supply the city was in chaos.停电后，城市一片混乱。
• The typhoon left chaos behind it.台风后一片混乱。