PBS高端访谈:巴黎气候新协议对我们未来的影响

 　　JUDY WOODRUFF: So, how meaningful are this weekend's pledges? And does it signal a fundamental change in how we will get our energy?

　　Fred Krupp is the president of the Environmental Defense¹ Fund. He's back from Paris. And Robert Bryce is a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute and the author of several books about this. His latest is titled "Smaller, Faster, Lighter², Denser³, Cheaper."And we welcome you both to the program.

　　Fred Krupp, to you first. How much of a difference is this agreement going to make?

　　巴黎气候新协议对我们未来的影响

　　FRED KRUPP, Environmental Defense Fund: It's going to make a big difference. It's really the first COP that exceeded the expectations that I had going into it, the first conference of the parties that really set us on a path toward solving this problem.

　　Now, Judy, it doesn't solve the climate problem. No one meeting could do that, not by a long shot, but it does get us a long way there. The reductions that have been pledged by nearly every country on Earth get us perhaps halfway⁴ there. And then there is a mechanism⁵ built into the agreement that allows the ambitions to be ratcheted up.

　　And, perhaps most important, there is transparency, which means countries will have to be reporting their emissions⁶, and there will be a technical review of those reports to make sure they're accurate. And that is critical, so that there is not only ambition here, but also accountability.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Robert Bryce, do you see this as an agreement that goes a long way toward doing something about climate change?

　　ROBERT BRYCE, Manhattan Institute: I do not.

　　I think there are three key problems with it, Judy. First is, none of these targets that have been set by the individual countries are legally binding⁷. Second, Ban Ki-Moon, the U.N. secretary-general, made this clear before the meeting started in Paris when he said that all of these targets that have been made by the individual countries are not sufficient, and that they're going to have to come back in just a few years and provide new lower targets for emissions.

　　And, finally, and perhaps most importantly, there is nothing in any of these agreements that moves the ball forward on nuclear energy, and this is the key issue. When you listen to what the climate scientists have been saying on this, on December 3, in The Guardian⁸, James Hansen, one of the most high-profile climate scientists in the world, along with three other climate scientists, said that nuclear energy will make the difference — I'm quoting — "make the difference between the world missing crucial climate targets or achieving them."And the hard reality is that, unless we have an energy form that can replace substantial quantities of coal-fired generation — and that means natural gas and nuclear — then I think that we're not going to come near any kind of significant reductions in CO2 emissions to meet the CO2 emissions targets that have been laid out.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, Fred Krupp, let me take his — Mr. Bryce's last point first, that the agreement doesn't make meaningful progress on moving toward nuclear or another real alternative to carbon.

　　FRED KRUPP: Well, I would strongly disagree with that.

　　Countries are free to meet their obligations any way they want to, but they have to report and be accountable, as I said before. China plans to build 30 nuclear power plants and is constructing about half that number now. So, if nuclear technology comes along that's safe and affordable⁹, nuclear very much is on the table and could be part of the agreement.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: But, Fred Krupp, there is no requirement that countries do that. Is that correct?

　　FRED KRUPP: Well, there is no requirement that countries use nuclear, no. They're free to use whatever technology they choose.

　　But some countries are pursuing nuclear, and that's allowed. It turns out, Judy, that the cost of solar panels in the last five years has dropped 80 percent. So, if solar panels are cheaper than nuclear, why should the — an agreement require countries to use nuclear? Nuclear may end up cheaper. That remains¹⁰ to be seen. Right now, the plants that are being built in the United States will substantially raise the rates of rate payers in the jurisdictions¹¹ where those are being built, because, right now, it is an expensive technology, at least here in the U.S.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Robert Bryce, why isn't it sufficient, if not — even the advocates of this agreement are saying it's not perfect, but why isn't it sufficient that countries are now saying they're going to move in the direction, not all necessarily nuclear, but these other technologies, alternative fuel technologies?

　　ROBERT BRYCE: Sure. And we hear about solar and wind. And we have heard about solar and wind.

　　And, look, I'm pro-solar. I have solar panels on the roof of my house. I'm not bullish on wind, because it takes up too much land. The problem, fundamentally, for the developing world is that they're not turning to solar and wind in a big way. They're turning to coal-fired capacity.

　　Let's look at the numbers that have been published by Sierra Club and CoalSwarm, two adamant¹² coal critics. They point out that, today, there is 276 gigawatts of coal-fired capacity under construction now. That's roughly equal to the entire coal-fired capacity of the United States.

　　Mr. Krupp says we have to make nuclear safer and cheaper. There's no question. But to make that happen, we have to have strong governmental leadership. I have written many times about this. I had a piece in The L.A. Times just a few days ago. The United States could be taking a leadership position in making nuclear energy safer, cheaper, developing reactors¹³ that are passively safe.

　　But we don't have the support — this is key — of the main environmental groups, including the Environmental Defense Fund. Sierra Club and Green Peace are adamantly¹⁴ opposed to nuclear energy.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: All right. Excuse me.

　　ROBERT BRYCE: Sure.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: I'm sorry for interrupting, but let me let Mr. Krupp respond.

　　FRED KRUPP: First of all, we're not opposed to nuclear energy.

　　Second of all, the statistics about 276 plants, those were statistics from a few years ago. And that was planned, not under construction. But we had a lot of plants planned in the United States just a few short years ago, and they have almost all, to a one, been scrapped¹⁵.

　　So, India's plans to build coal-fired plants — change will come to India, because it's in their own national interest. Sure, they have to lift people out of poverty. They need electricity. They need economic development, but they also need clean air. Right now, they have more opportunities than ever before to create jobs with renewable energy and to have clean air. The air pollution is killing¹⁶ hundreds of thousands of people a year in India.

　　So all I would say, Mr. Bryce, to you is that no one predicted how fast natural gas came online in the United States. It was a big change. And the change we're seeing now that I think will surprise a lot of people is how fast the cost of these clean energy technologies are coming down.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: All right, gentlemen, big subject. We are clearly going to be coming back to it a lot in the future.

　　I want to thank both of you, Fred Krupp, Robert Bryce. Thank you.

　　ROBERT BRYCE: Thank you.

　　FRED KRUPP: Thank you.

 

1 defense   

n.防御，保卫；[pl.]防务工事；辩护，答辩

参考例句：

• The accused has the right to defense.被告人有权获得辩护。
• The war has impacted the area with military and defense workers.战争使那个地区挤满了军队和防御工程人员。

2 lighter   

n.打火机，点火器；驳船；v.用驳船运送；light的比较级

参考例句：

• The portrait was touched up so as to make it lighter.这张画经过润色，色调明朗了一些。
• The lighter works off the car battery.引燃器利用汽车蓄电池打火。

3 denser   

adj. 不易看透的, 密集的, 浓厚的, 愚钝的

参考例句：

• The denser population necessitates closer consolidation both for internal and external action. 住得日益稠密的居民，对内和对外都不得不更紧密地团结起来。 来自英汉非文学 - 家庭、私有制和国家的起源
• As Tito entered the neighbourhood of San Martino, he found the throng rather denser. 蒂托走近圣马丁教堂附近一带时，发现人群相当密集。

4 halfway   

adj.中途的，不彻底的，部分的；adv.半路地，在中途，在半途

参考例句：

• We had got only halfway when it began to get dark.走到半路，天就黑了。
• In study the worst danger is give up halfway.在学习上，最忌讳的是有始无终。

5 mechanism   

n.机械装置；机构，结构

参考例句：

• The bones and muscles are parts of the mechanism of the body.骨骼和肌肉是人体的组成部件。
• The mechanism of the machine is very complicated.这台机器的结构是非常复杂的。

6 emissions   

排放物( emission的名词复数 )； 散发物（尤指气体）

参考例句：

• Most scientists accept that climate change is linked to carbon emissions. 大多数科学家都相信气候变化与排放的含碳气体有关。
• Dangerous emissions radiate from plutonium. 危险的辐射物从钚放散出来。

7 binding   

有约束力的，有效的，应遵守的

参考例句：

• The contract was not signed and has no binding force. 合同没有签署因而没有约束力。
• Both sides have agreed that the arbitration will be binding. 双方都赞同仲裁具有约束力。

8 guardian   

n.监护人；守卫者，保护者

参考例句：

• The form must be signed by the child's parents or guardian. 这张表格须由孩子的家长或监护人签字。
• The press is a guardian of the public weal. 报刊是公共福利的卫护者。

9 affordable   

adj.支付得起的，不太昂贵的

参考例句：

• The rent for the four-roomed house is affordable.四居室房屋的房租付得起。
• There are few affordable apartments in big cities.在大城市中没有几所公寓是便宜的。

10 remains   

n.剩余物，残留物；遗体，遗迹

参考例句：

• He ate the remains of food hungrily.他狼吞虎咽地吃剩余的食物。
• The remains of the meal were fed to the dog.残羹剩饭喂狗了。

11 jurisdictions   

司法权( jurisdiction的名词复数 )； 裁判权； 管辖区域； 管辖范围

参考例句：

• Butler entreated him to remember the act abolishing the heritable jurisdictions. 巴特勒提醒他注意废除世袭审判权的国会法令。
• James I personally adjudicated between the two jurisdictions. 詹姆士一世亲自裁定双方纠纷。

12 adamant   

adj.坚硬的，固执的

参考例句：

• We are adamant on the building of a well-off society.在建设小康社会这一点上，我们是坚定不移的。
• Veronica was quite adamant that they should stay on.维罗妮卡坚信他们必须继续留下去。

13 reactors   

起反应的人( reactor的名词复数 )； 反应装置； 原子炉； 核反应堆

参考例句：

• The TMI nuclear facility has two reactors. 三哩岛核设施有两个反应堆。 来自英汉非文学 - 环境法 - 环境法
• The earliest production reactors necessarily used normal uranium as fuel. 最早为生产用的反应堆，必须使用普通铀作为燃料。

14 adamantly   

adv.坚决地，坚定不移地，坚强不屈地

参考例句：

• "Come over here,"he told her adamantly. “到这边来，”他对她坚定地说。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• His family were adamantly opposed to the marriage. 他的家人坚决反对这门亲事。 来自《简明英汉词典》

15 scrapped   

废弃(scrap的过去式与过去分词)； 打架

参考例句：

• This machine is so old that it will soon have to be scrapped. 这架机器太旧，快报废了。
• It had been thought that passport controls would be scrapped. 人们曾认为会放开护照管制。

16 killing   

n.巨额利润；突然赚大钱，发大财

参考例句：

• Investors are set to make a killing from the sell-off.投资者准备清仓以便大赚一笔。
• Last week my brother made a killing on Wall Street.上个周我兄弟在华尔街赚了一大笔。