pbs高端访谈:经济援助应该与大学的负担能力挂钩?

 　　RAY SUAREZ: Now, The White House calls for changes in college financial aid tied to improving the affordability¹ and value of higher education.

　　At the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor² today, President Obama said an improved educational system will help build a stronger American economy.

　　PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: This is going to be one of the most important issues that not just you face, but this entire country faces, because in this economy, there is no greater predictor of individual success than a good education.

　　RAY SUAREZ: The president specifically targeted the rising cost of college, and the student loans often needed to cover the hefty price tag.

　　The College Board reports the average in-state tuition at four-year public institutions rose 8.3 percent last fall, much faster than inflation. Together with room and board, the total exceeds $17,000 a year. By comparison, at private institutions, that number jumps to more than $38,000 per year on average.

　　In the spring, the average college graduate left school with about $24,000 in student loans to pay off. And last October, for the first time ever, Americans owed more on student loans than on credit cards.

　　Today, as he did at his State of the Union earlier in the week, the president said he's putting colleges on notice.

　　BARACK OBAMA: You can't assume that you'll just jack³ up tuition every single year. If you can't stop tuition from going up, then the funding you get from taxpayers⁴ each year will go down. We should push colleges to do better. We should hold them accountable if they don't.

　　RAY SUAREZ: Mr. Obama also proposed a billion-dollar grant program that would provide more funding to states that help bring college costs down as well.

　　In addition, the president pushed for action from Congress on measures that would extend a tuition tax break, and keep the rate of the most common type of student loan from doubling in July.

　　For more, we turn to two people whose institutions were on the receiving end of the president's remarks today. Mark Yudof is president of the University of California, a system of 10 campuses serving 235,000 students. And Richard Vedder is professor of economics at Ohio University. He also runs the Center for College Affordability and Productivity.

　　We invited the Department of Education to join our conversation, but they declined.

　　President Yudof, let me start with you.

　　At basic level, do you agree with the president's observation that the fast-rising cost of getting a college education is harming access?

　　MARK YUDOF, University of California: Well, I think it is harming access, primarily for the middle class.

　　You have to remember the president didn't mention that there's been systematic⁵ disinvestment in higher education. Our budget was cut $750 million in a year, about 25 percent. And Professor Vedder probably disagrees with this, but we are creating fairness that the president is seeking in the tax code.

　　A third of our tuition goes back into financial aid and is distributed to low-income students—55 percent of our students pay no tuition—39 percent of the students are Pell-eligible, relatively⁶ low-income families. That's the reality.

　　So I welcome this. I think it's a constructive⁷ dialogue, but there are a lot of nuances.

　　RAY SUAREZ: Professor Vedder, let's hear from you. President Yudof was predicting you wouldn't agree. What did you think of what the president had to say, as a general observation, that the fast-rising cost of tuition is hurting access at a time when we need more educated people?

　　RICHARD VEDDER, Ohio University: Well, I certainly agree that the cost of education is rising rapidly.

　　And I also agree that the president, in telling colleges that there will be consequences if they don't do something about reducing tuition cost growth, is making a—is showing some recognition of the problem and making a constructive suggestion.

　　But the reality is, we have had a vast increase, particularly at the federal level. I agree with President Yudof. There's been a large decline in state funding. But there's been an absolute explosion at the federal level in grants and loans over the last decade.

　　By the way I calculate, using the College Board data that you talked about earlier, those aid expenditures⁸ have been rising more than 10 percent a year. And that's after adjusting for inflation.

　　And if you drop money out of airplanes—or the equivalent—over students' houses, they're going to take that money and the colleges are going to be aware of that and they're going to raise tuition fees a good bit. So, I'm not sure that we're dealing⁹ with the root cause of the problem.

　　RAY SUAREZ: Well, President Yudof, Professor Vedder just observed that it's the access of money that fails to restrain upward pressure on tuition prices. They went up last year more than two-and-a-half times the rate of inflation.

　　MARK YUDOF: I don't—you know, you keep saying two-and-a-half times the rate of inflation. This is like the co-pay at your drugstore.

　　Our costs are actually down 15 percent per credit hour over the last 10 years. That's the reality. The states don't want to pay. So it's like you go to your drugstore, the insurance company doesn't want to pay, your co-pay goes from $10 to $20. That doesn't mean the cost of the drug has doubled. It just means your costs have doubled.

　　So there's a misnomer¹⁰ that it's all going into rock climbing walls and other things. That's not the problem. The problem is there's a shift from the taxpayers to the families in terms of education.

　　I also don't think for the nonprofit sector¹¹ that there's much evidence that there's overconsumption. We've been pretty flat in terms of our enrollments and the like. I understand that's a point of view. And I do agree with Professor Vedder that the trajectory¹² we're on, on many of these programs in Washington, they are getting so expensive, that I'm very worried about it. I'm not sure they're sustainable.

　　RAY SUAREZ: Professor Vedder?

　　RICHARD VEDDER: Well, I certainly agree with the latter point.

　　You know, here we have a nation that has got an enormous broader macro debt problem. As a nation, we have huge future liabilities dealing with elderly and so forth¹³. And what we're really doing with, say, the student loan program is, we're borrowing money, often from overseas folks like Chinese investors¹⁴, who lend money to the U.S. government, who in turn then lend it to often middle-class and even upper-middle-class students—25, 30 percent of the loan money of the federal government goes to people from families with relatively high incomes, well above the median income.

　　RAY SUAREZ: Well, what about President Yudof's point that, you know, it's really hard to restrain price increases, that really what students are seeing is something closer to the real price of providing an individual a four-year education?

　　RICHARD VEDDER: President Yudof is quite correct in stating that, particularly for state universities, that more and more of the cost is being picked up by the student, rather than by state governments. There's no question about that. The evidence is clear.

　　But it is also clear that universities in the United States over the last generation or so have enormously increased their staffs, for example, administrative¹⁵ personnel, student service personnel. There are climbing walls. They're not in and of themselves all that important, but the cumulative¹⁶ effects of a lot of spending on things outside of the core missions has contributed somewhat to the inflation in college costs.

　　RAY SUAREZ: So, President Yudof, if the government says, we are not going to pay, we're part of this triangle, or we're on one corner of it, we don't want to keep shelling out money, will that put downward pressure on these annual price hikes?

　　MARK YUDOF: Well, of course it will.

　　And, frankly¹⁷, our students are fed up with the price hikes. I don't like it much myself. I'm trying to find someone who wants quality and is also willing to pay for it. And everyone wants to pass the buck¹⁸ to someone else. But, of course, it will put pressure on to keep it down.

　　And then at least in the case of the University of California, classes will get bigger, class access may suffer, time to degree may grow. I agree with Professor Vedder. We have to do a better job of cutting our budgets. If we have too many administrators¹⁹, let's reduce the number.

　　So I'm not saying things are perfect, but at the end of the day, I think we will see that downward pressure. And for a great research university like the University of California, you know, inevitably²⁰, that will have a negative impact on the quality of the institution.

　　RAY SUAREZ: So, bottom line, Mr. President, you can't hold the line on prices without reducing the quality of the service you're providing?

　　MARK YUDOF: Well, we're going to try. And we will do our cuts and we will have our common IT system.

　　But I'm very—I would say it's not a certainty, but I'm fearful about it. That's what I would say.

　　RAY SUAREZ: And what about you, Professor Vedder? Can colleges hold the line or even reduce costs, with these new federal incentives²¹ to do so, without undermining the quality, as the president says he has to?

　　RICHARD VEDDER: Colleges are in an unsustainable trajectory right now with respect to the cost of education.

　　The cost of something cannot go up faster than people's incomes forever. At some point, the burden becomes too large. I think we've filled the gap for many years with increased student loans. We're clear that that is no longer sustainable. We've got to move to a new model, and that is going to have find—involve new ways of doing things. Necessity is the mother of invention.

　　RAY SUAREZ: Well, Mr. President, this proposal needs congressional approval. Will the University of California system's spokesperson in Washington be contacting the California delegation²² and urging them to vote no on any change in the way the federal government oversees²³ loans and transfer payments to higher ed?

　　MARK YUDOF: No, we won't be doing that. We'll get into a constructive dialogue on this.

　　You know, I agree we have to change how we're doing business. The president has some tremendously able people working on this. You know, I look forward to that, to an extended conversation, but I'm not going to tell them to weigh in and sort of in a knee-jerk fashion oppose the president's agenda. That's not going to happen.

　　RAY SUAREZ: Joining us from California, President Yudof, thanks for joining us.

　　Professor Vedder, good to see you as well.

　　RICHARD VEDDER: Glad to be with you, Ray.

　　MARK YUDOF: Thank you.

1 affordability   

可购性

参考例句：

• Performance-Based Logistics Affordability: Can We Afford Categorical Conversion to Performance-Based Acquisition? 基于性能的后期的可承受性：能否担负得起向基于性能的采办的无条件的转变？
• There would be no crisis of affordability, as't for food or clothing. 就想食物与服装一样，因为供给没有危机。

2 arbor   

n.凉亭；树木

参考例句：

• They sat in the arbor and chatted over tea.他们坐在凉亭里，边喝茶边聊天。
• You may have heard of Arbor Day at school.你可能在学校里听过植树节。

3 jack   

n.插座，千斤顶，男人；v.抬起，提醒，扛举；n.（Jake）杰克

参考例句：

• I am looking for the headphone jack.我正在找寻头戴式耳机插孔。
• He lifted the car with a jack to change the flat tyre.他用千斤顶把车顶起来换下瘪轮胎。

4 taxpayers   

纳税人，纳税的机构( taxpayer的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• Finance for education comes from taxpayers. 教育经费来自纳税人。
• She was declaiming against the waste of the taxpayers' money. 她慷慨陈词猛烈抨击对纳税人金钱的浪费。

5 systematic   

adj.有系统的，有计划的，有方法的

参考例句：

• The way he works isn't very systematic.他的工作不是很有条理。
• The teacher made a systematic work of teaching.这个教师进行系统的教学工作。

6 relatively   

adv.比较...地，相对地

参考例句：

• The rabbit is a relatively recent introduction in Australia.兔子是相对较新引入澳大利亚的物种。
• The operation was relatively painless.手术相对来说不痛。

7 constructive   

adj.建设的，建设性的

参考例句：

• We welcome constructive criticism.我们乐意接受有建设性的批评。
• He is beginning to deal with his anger in a constructive way.他开始用建设性的方法处理自己的怒气。

8 expenditures   

n.花费( expenditure的名词复数 )；使用；（尤指金钱的）支出额；（精力、时间、材料等的）耗费

参考例句：

• We have overspent.We'll have to let up our expenditures next month. 我们已经超支了，下个月一定得节约开支。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• The pension includes an allowance of fifty pounds for traffic expenditures. 年金中包括50镑交通费补贴。 来自《简明英汉词典》

9 dealing   

n.经商方法，待人态度

参考例句：

• This store has an excellent reputation for fair dealing.该商店因买卖公道而享有极高的声誉。
• His fair dealing earned our confidence.他的诚实的行为获得我们的信任。

10 misnomer   

n.误称

参考例句：

• Herbal"tea"is something of a misnomer because these drinks contain no tea at all.花草“茶”是一个误称，因为这类饮料里面根本不含茶。
• Actually," Underground "is a misnomer,because more than half the shops are above ground.实际上，“ 地下 ” 这个名称用之不当，因为半数以上的店铺是在地面上的。

11 sector   

n.部门，部分；防御地段，防区；扇形

参考例句：

• The export sector will aid the economic recovery. 出口产业将促进经济复苏。
• The enemy have attacked the British sector.敌人已进攻英国防区。

12 trajectory   

n.弹道，轨道

参考例句：

• It is not difficult to sketch the subsequent trajectory.很容易描绘出它们最终的轨迹。
• The path followed by a projectile is called its trajectory.抛物体所循的路径称为它的轨道。

13 forth   

adv.向前；向外，往外

参考例句：

• The wind moved the trees gently back and forth.风吹得树轻轻地来回摇晃。
• He gave forth a series of works in rapid succession.他很快连续发表了一系列的作品。

14 investors   

n.投资者，出资者( investor的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• a con man who bilked investors out of millions of dollars 诈取投资者几百万元的骗子
• a cash bonanza for investors 投资者的赚钱机会

15 administrative   

adj.行政的，管理的

参考例句：

• The administrative burden must be lifted from local government.必须解除地方政府的行政负担。
• He regarded all these administrative details as beneath his notice.他认为行政管理上的这些琐事都不值一顾。

16 cumulative   

adj.累积的，渐增的

参考例句：

• This drug has a cumulative effect.这种药有渐增的效力。
• The benefits from eating fish are cumulative.吃鱼的好处要长期才能显现。

17 frankly   

adv.坦白地，直率地；坦率地说

参考例句：

• To speak frankly, I don't like the idea at all.老实说，我一点也不赞成这个主意。
• Frankly speaking, I'm not opposed to reform.坦率地说，我不反对改革。

18 buck   

n.雄鹿，雄兔；v.马离地跳跃

参考例句：

• The boy bent curiously to the skeleton of the buck.这个男孩好奇地弯下身去看鹿的骸骨。
• The female deer attracts the buck with high-pitched sounds.雌鹿以尖声吸引雄鹿。

19 administrators   

n.管理者( administrator的名词复数 )；有管理（或行政）才能的人；（由遗嘱检验法庭指定的）遗产管理人；奉派暂管主教教区的牧师

参考例句：

• He had administrators under him but took the crucial decisions himself. 他手下有管理人员，但重要的决策仍由他自己来做。 来自辞典例句
• Administrators have their own methods of social intercourse. 办行政的人有他们的社交方式。 来自汉英文学 - 围城

20 inevitably   

adv.不可避免地；必然发生地

参考例句：

• In the way you go on,you are inevitably coming apart.照你们这样下去，毫无疑问是会散伙的。
• Technological changes will inevitably lead to unemployment.技术变革必然会导致失业。

21 incentives   

激励某人做某事的事物( incentive的名词复数 )； 刺激； 诱因； 动机

参考例句：

• tax incentives to encourage savings 鼓励储蓄的税收措施
• Furthermore, subsidies provide incentives only for investments in equipment. 更有甚者，提供津贴仅是为鼓励增添设备的投资。 来自英汉非文学 - 环境法 - 环境法

22 delegation   

n.代表团；派遣

参考例句：

• The statement of our delegation was singularly appropriate to the occasion.我们代表团的声明非常适合时宜。
• We shall inform you of the date of the delegation's arrival.我们将把代表团到达的日期通知你。

23 oversees   

v.监督，监视( oversee的第三人称单数 )

参考例句：

• She oversees both the research and the manufacturing departments. 她既监督研究部门又监督生产部门。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• The Department of Education oversees the federal programs dealing with education. 教育部监管处理教育的联邦程序。 来自互联网