PBS高端访谈:盾牌和布鲁克斯之间的战争

 　　JUDY WOODRUFF: And now to the analysis of Shields and Brooks¹. That's syndicated columnist² Mark Shields and New York Times columnist David Brooks.

　　Welcome, gentlemen.

　　So, we live in this rich country, Mark and David, but we have just heard kind of a remarkable³ report that Hari did from Orange County, California, about hunger. And then we just heard Raj Chetty, the economist⁴, in this fascinating conversation with Jeff, Mark, talk about how the mobility⁵, the ability of people to move up if they are the lowest level of the income ladder really hasn't changed. And, in fact, it's gotten worse in some ways.

　　What are we to make of all this?

　　MARK SHIELDS: I wish I had an answer for it.

　　I think there is no question we're talking about this being an issue and theme that is going to dominate certainly the president's presentation coming up. And it's -- Judy, the reality that he talked about, the income inequality, the economic inequality in the country, in a little over a generation, we have gone from the top 1 percent having 11 percent of the national income to 25 percent, and the bottom 90 percent -- that is 90 percent of the people -- instead of sharing 67 percent, down to less than 50.

　　So that widening income and economic inequality is real. And it has consequences that are social, that are political, and they're generational. And I was just blown away by the interview with Jeff. I mean, it just -- to me, it was so riveting⁷, what he says and how he says it.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: David, how does this -- what effect does this have or should have it on our public debate?

　　DAVID BROOKS: Well, I'm frankly⁸ a little concerned about the way it is going to affect our public debate.

　　Inequality is certainly widening. Mobility is something we have to think about as Americans. It is the American dream. But as a frame, it is a very broad frame. What Mark talked about, the concentration of wealth at the top, is caused by one set of problems, middle-class wage stagnation⁹ caused by another set of problems, what is happening in the lower 20 or 40 percent caused by a different set of problems.

　　So you have got a whole bunch of problems all intermingled. And my viewing, the political system I don't think can deal with all these different problems all layered on top. If I were President Obama doing the State of the Union address next week, I would say, where is the greatest injustice¹⁰? Where is the greatest harm?

　　And I would say that's at the bottom 20 percent or the bottom 40 percent. You take kids, what do they have to do to have a pretty -- chance of a decent life? Graduate from high school at age 19 with maybe a 2.5 GPA, not get convicted of anything, not get pregnant. Only 37 percent of kids at the bottom 20 percent income scale are doing that, only 37 percent.

　　So that is where the greatest harm is. That is already a phenomenally difficult problem. And I would focus on that, with early childhood education, nurse-family partnerships¹¹, school programs. I would really focus energy on that, rather than this vast society-wide issue called inequality.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: So -- but do we think that he may do some of that, Mark?

　　MARK SHIELDS: I think he will.

　　I think -- and David makes a very, very, very good point and a real point. But, Judy, when we just talk about family, and we talk about -- which I think has become sort of the dividing line, one side saying it's values that we have to do, the other side saying that there is economic war here, and I think that is something that is real.

　　And there are defined economic interests. And there is one side that has won and one side that has lost. And when we talk about children born to unmarried mothers, the country with the highest economic mobility in the world is Denmark with 55 percent of babies are born to unmarried mothers, you know?

　　DAVID BROOKS: Danish unmarried mothers are not like ours. They are living with guys and they're living decade after decade. They're just not having a marriage.

　　MARK SHIELDS: OK. But, I mean, you could say that marriage then as an institution in Western Europe has suffered.

　　But, I mean, just to simply say that this is the answer, I think it is -- it's Globalization. It's the decline of all these jobs that are in the industrial base of the country. It is a weakening of unions. There are a dozen factors that have contributed to it. But I think the fact that it's being addressed is important and urgent.

　　DAVID BROOKS: That is what makes it so hard as a political issue, because Mark is right. It is economic. It's the decline of low-skill jobs. It's de-industrialization. That leads to there are a lot of especially men who are not worth marrying, because they don't have incomes, they don't have wages.

　　And so they're just not going to get married. And so there is a clear economic cause there. There is also a cultural shift, as more people decide it's OK to have children before getting married. And these two interplay in an incredibly complicated way that is very hard to understand and probably differs person to person.

　　So my view is, it is already a phenomenally thick and thorny¹² problem. And so by making it more thick, by putting all these society-wide things, I understand there is inequality, I understand the mobility problem. I just think when we're thinking about policy, it is really important to focus.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: But, sometimes, we feel the two political parties are stuck in an argument, that one makes one argument, the other one makes another. Does this change what those arguments should be?

　　MARK SHIELDS: Well, I think it -- the question becomes, does the economy serve the people or do the people serve the economy?

　　And I think that to me is the cleavage here. I mean, I'm sorry. People -- the economy exist, the economy is thriving, the economy is working for very powerful and influential¹³ people. We see it. We see it in the scandals every day in our American politics. People with the affluence¹⁴ have influence.

　　And it comes down to, I think, a fundamental question about what kind of a society you are, is, does the economy exist for people? And I just think we have got to figure out a way to let people participate and enable them do participate in this economy and to live a life of dignity and respect.

　　DAVID BROOKS: Yes, another -- just another cleavage which I do not know the answer to, is the economy properly rewarding workers?

　　Democrats¹⁶ tend to say, these are productive workers and the economy is not rewarding them because there are fewer unions and things like that. Republicans tend to gravitate toward the issue, these are just not that productive workers and the economy is fairly rewarding them, and, therefore, the response is to increase their human capital through education and other things, so to make them more productive.

　　And that is sort of basic question. Is the capitalist economy right now working, or is it not?

　　And when -- as we said tonight, we reported the chairman of J.P. Morgan Chase making $20 million last year at a company that did have, what, 33 percent increase in profits, but also negotiated...

　　MARK SHIELDS: And paid $18 billion in fines.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Right.

　　MARK SHIELDS: If you are arrested as an axe¹⁷ murderer, you want Jamie Dimon to be bargaining for you.

　　MARK SHIELDS: He has kept the company out of jail and profitable, and, I guess, so they double his salary.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, we mentioned you -- one of you -- both of you -- I think Mark mentioned politicians in trouble.

　　The former governor of Virginiaindicted today for -- along with his wife -- for taking money, gifts, loans from a businessman in Virginia. And the question is whether he did anything in return. And we don't know whether he did, David. But some -- you hear the argument made that, well, this is the kind of thing all politicians do.

　　Is this the kind of thing all politicians do?

　　DAVID BROOKS: No, not really. Most politicians are not actually that into money. That is why they went into politics. They're into power, they're into prestige, they want to be the center of attention.

　　What is mystifying about this couple is the fascination¹⁸ with Rolexes and Ferraris. I have like a $80 watch or something like that. Why do you need a $6,500 watch? What are you getting out of it? He needs status. I guess he wants a Rolex. But he's governor. He has a security detail. That's status.

　　So what's the psychology¹⁹ that was driving them is a bit of a mystery to me. And then I think it's partly because -- and this is true of politicians -- they spend their time hanging around rich people, constantly around rich people. You look around the table, it's Rolex, Rolex, Rolex, and suddenly they don't fit in. And that does have a corrupting²⁰ effect on politicians in a variety of ways, actually.

　　MARK SHIELDS: And that's universal.

　　The point, the last point David made is absolutely universal. We have a system that is excessively deferential²¹ to people with money. Politicians spend too much of their time seeking the approbation²² and the support of people with money. And a little resentment²³ develops. I'm not in any way justifying²⁴ Bob McDonnell.

　　Bob McDonnell was a very appealing political figure. He was a real possibility to be on the ticket.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: For president.

　　MARK SHIELDS: He won as a conservative in a swing state, a battleground state.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Vice²⁵ president.

　　MARK SHIELDS: The vice president.

　　In Virginia, he governed as a moderate. He was a successful governor. But -- and this is not Teapot Dome²⁶. This is not somebody selling the mineral rights of a country. This is not Rod Blagojevich selling a U.S. Senate seat to the highest bidder²⁷. But it is grubby entitlement.

　　And the Rolex gene⁶, which is exclusively male, is a real disorder²⁸.

　　MARK SHIELDS: It truly is. I have no idea.

　　I mean, Bernie Madoff had 17 Rolexes. Jesse Jackson Jr...

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Is that right?

　　MARK SHIELDS: He had 17. And Jesse Jackson Jr., the same thing, he had a Rolex.

　　I have no idea what it is. I talked to one of the smartest woman I know this week, and she said, it's man's real impulse to wear diamond necklaces, and Rolex is the closest thing to it that's tolerable.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: I'm not going to ask...

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: ... necklace...

　　DAVID BROOKS: Yes, I have got diamonds, but I don't...

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: All right, just one last quick question, speaking of politicians and money.

　　Hillary Clinton, we haven't talked a lot about her in a while. But she's going around the country making speeches. And I guess one of the most successful political action committees, super PACs, announced this week that it is going to be backing her.

　　So, again, it's what -- it's what you both are talking about. It's money, it's politics. What does this say that, here we are, January 2014, and we're already talking about how much money...

　　DAVID BROOKS: Yes, well, they're trying to scare people out of the race. But, to me, it's not going to work.

　　It's the sound of doom²⁹. No, I don't think it's the sound of doom, but I do not think she is going to be coronated out of this. And the fact that some high-flying Washington establishment PAC is helping³⁰ her is not going to necessarily help her. There is a great outsider hunger here.

　　And I'm looking for an outsider. Governor Jerry Brown of California, mark my words, he's going to run.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Thirty seconds. Thirty seconds.

　　MARK SHIELDS: The election of 2016 will not be about continuity. It will be about change.

　　And the idea that you're talking about inevitability³¹ as a campaign strategy, that you better buy your ticket right now and get on the train because it's pulling out of the station, American voters today, we are participating in this.

　　And I just really think that it's a total disservice, quite frankly, to President Obama. It makes him look more and more like a lame-duck, when his own party can't wait to get him out of town. It would be one thing if there was a Republican sitting it in the White House. There is a Democrat¹⁵, and he's got basically 1,000 days left in his term.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: I just want to see what kind of watch you both are wearing.

　　MARK SHIELDS: L.L. Bean.

　　DAVID BROOKS: Very cheap. Very cheap.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: OK.

　　MARK SHIELDS: L.L. Bean, and it's overpriced at $89.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Mark Shields, David Brooks, thank you both.

1 brooks   

n.小溪( brook的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• Brooks gave the business when Haas caught him with his watch. 哈斯抓到偷他的手表的布鲁克斯时，狠狠地揍了他一顿。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• Ade and Brooks exchanged blows yesterday and they were severely punished today. 艾德和布鲁克斯昨天打起来了，今天他们受到严厉的惩罚。 来自《简明英汉词典》

2 columnist   

n.专栏作家

参考例句：

• The host was interviewing a local columnist.节目主持人正在同一位当地的专栏作家交谈。
• She's a columnist for USA Today.她是《今日美国报》的专栏作家。

3 remarkable   

adj.显著的，异常的，非凡的，值得注意的

参考例句：

• She has made remarkable headway in her writing skills.她在写作技巧方面有了长足进步。
• These cars are remarkable for the quietness of their engines.这些汽车因发动机没有噪音而不同凡响。

4 economist   

n.经济学家，经济专家，节俭的人

参考例句：

• He cast a professional economist's eyes on the problem.他以经济学行家的眼光审视这个问题。
• He's an economist who thinks he knows all the answers.他是个经济学家，自以为什么都懂。

5 mobility   

n.可动性，变动性，情感不定

参考例句：

• The difference in regional house prices acts as an obstacle to mobility of labour.不同地区房价的差异阻碍了劳动力的流动。
• Mobility is very important in guerrilla warfare.机动性在游击战中至关重要。

6 gene   

n.遗传因子，基因

参考例句：

• A single gene may have many effects.单一基因可能具有很多种效应。
• The targeting of gene therapy has been paid close attention.其中基因治疗的靶向性是值得密切关注的问题之一。

7 riveting   

adj.动听的，令人着迷的，完全吸引某人注意力的；n.铆接（法）

参考例句：

• I find snooker riveting though I don't play myself.虽然我自己不打斯诺克，但是我觉得它挺令人着迷。
• To my amazement,I found it riveting.但令我惊讶的是，我发现它的吸引人处。

8 frankly   

adv.坦白地，直率地；坦率地说

参考例句：

• To speak frankly, I don't like the idea at all.老实说，我一点也不赞成这个主意。
• Frankly speaking, I'm not opposed to reform.坦率地说，我不反对改革。

9 stagnation   

n. 停滞

参考例句：

• Poor economic policies led to a long period of stagnation and decline. 糟糕的经济政策道致了长时间的经济萧条和下滑。
• Motion is absolute while stagnation is relative. 运动是绝对的，而静止是相对的。

10 injustice   

n.非正义，不公正，不公平，侵犯（别人的）权利

参考例句：

• They complained of injustice in the way they had been treated.他们抱怨受到不公平的对待。
• All his life he has been struggling against injustice.他一生都在与不公正现象作斗争。

11 partnerships   

n.伙伴关系( partnership的名词复数 )；合伙人身份；合作关系

参考例句：

• Partnerships suffer another major disadvantage: decision-making is shared. 合伙企业的另一主要缺点是决定要由大家来作。 来自英汉非文学 - 政府文件
• It involved selling off limited partnerships. 它涉及到售出有限的合伙权。 来自辞典例句

12 thorny   

adj.多刺的，棘手的

参考例句：

• The young captain is pondering over a thorny problem.年轻的上尉正在思考一个棘手的问题。
• The boys argued over the thorny points in the lesson.孩子们辩论功课中的难点。

13 influential   

adj.有影响的，有权势的

参考例句：

• He always tries to get in with the most influential people.他总是试图巴结最有影响的人物。
• He is a very influential man in the government.他在政府中是个很有影响的人物。

14 affluence   

n.充裕，富足

参考例句：

• Their affluence is more apparent than real.他们的富有是虚有其表。
• There is a lot of affluence in this part of the state because it has many businesses.这个州的这一部分相当富有，因为它有很多商行。

15 democrat   

n.民主主义者，民主人士；民主党党员

参考例句：

• The Democrat and the Public criticized each other.民主党人和共和党人互相攻击。
• About two years later,he was defeated by Democrat Jimmy Carter.大约两年后，他被民主党人杰米卡特击败。

16 democrats   

n.民主主义者，民主人士( democrat的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• The Democrats held a pep rally on Capitol Hill yesterday. 民主党昨天在国会山召开了竞选誓师大会。
• The democrats organize a filibuster in the senate. 民主党党员组织了阻挠议事。 来自《简明英汉词典》

17 axe   

n.斧子；v.用斧头砍，削减

参考例句：

• Be careful with that sharp axe.那把斧子很锋利，你要当心。
• The edge of this axe has turned.这把斧子卷了刃了。

18 fascination   

n.令人着迷的事物，魅力，迷恋

参考例句：

• He had a deep fascination with all forms of transport.他对所有的运输工具都很着迷。
• His letters have been a source of fascination to a wide audience.广大观众一直迷恋于他的来信。

19 psychology   

n.心理，心理学，心理状态

参考例句：

• She has a background in child psychology.她受过儿童心理学的教育。
• He studied philosophy and psychology at Cambridge.他在剑桥大学学习哲学和心理学。

20 corrupting   

（使）败坏( corrupt的现在分词 )； （使）腐化； 引起（计算机文件等的）错误； 破坏

参考例句：

• It would be corrupting discipline to leave him unpunished. 不惩治他会败坏风纪。
• It would be corrupting military discipline to leave him unpunished. 不惩治他会败坏军纪。

21 deferential   

adj. 敬意的，恭敬的

参考例句：

• They like five-star hotels and deferential treatment.他们喜欢五星级的宾馆和毕恭毕敬的接待。
• I am deferential and respectful in the presence of artists.我一向恭敬、尊重艺术家。

22 approbation   

n.称赞；认可

参考例句：

• He tasted the wine of audience approbation.他尝到了像酒般令人陶醉的听众赞许滋味。
• The result has not met universal approbation.该结果尚未获得普遍认同。

23 resentment   

n.怨愤，忿恨

参考例句：

• All her feelings of resentment just came pouring out.她一股脑儿倾吐出所有的怨恨。
• She cherished a deep resentment under the rose towards her employer.她暗中对她的雇主怀恨在心。

24 justifying   

证明…有理( justify的现在分词 )； 为…辩护； 对…作出解释； 为…辩解（或辩护）

参考例句：

• He admitted it without justifying it. 他不加辩解地承认这个想法。
• The fellow-travellers'service usually consisted of justifying all the tergiversations of Soviet intenal and foreign policy. 同路人的服务通常包括对苏联国内外政策中一切互相矛盾之处进行辩护。

25 vice   

n.坏事；恶习；[pl.]台钳，老虎钳；adj.副的

参考例句：

• He guarded himself against vice.他避免染上坏习惯。
• They are sunk in the depth of vice.他们堕入了罪恶的深渊。

26 dome   

n.圆屋顶，拱顶

参考例句：

• The dome was supported by white marble columns.圆顶由白色大理石柱支撑着。
• They formed the dome with the tree's branches.他们用树枝搭成圆屋顶。

27 bidder   

n.(拍卖时的)出价人，报价人，投标人

参考例句：

• TV franchises will be auctioned to the highest bidder.电视特许经营权将拍卖给出价最高的投标人。
• The bidder withdrew his bid after submission of his bid.投标者在投标之后撤销了投标书。

28 disorder   

n.紊乱，混乱；骚动，骚乱；疾病，失调

参考例句：

• When returning back,he discovered the room to be in disorder.回家后，他发现屋子里乱七八糟。
• It contained a vast number of letters in great disorder.里面七零八落地装着许多信件。

29 doom   

n.厄运，劫数；v.注定，命定

参考例句：

• The report on our economic situation is full of doom and gloom.这份关于我们经济状况的报告充满了令人绝望和沮丧的调子。
• The dictator met his doom after ten years of rule.独裁者统治了十年终于完蛋了。

30 helping   

n.食物的一份&adj.帮助人的，辅助的

参考例句：

• The poor children regularly pony up for a second helping of my hamburger. 那些可怜的孩子们总是要求我把我的汉堡包再给他们一份。
• By doing this, they may at times be helping to restore competition. 这样一来, 他在某些时候,有助于竞争的加强。

31 inevitability   

n.必然性

参考例句：

• Evolutionism is normally associated with a belief in the inevitability of progress. 进化主义通常和一种相信进步不可避免的看法相联系。
• It is the tide of the times, an inevitability of history. 这是时代的潮流，历史的必然。