pbs高端访谈:奥巴马支持两党参议院移民改革的蓝图

 　　JUDY WOODRUFF:One week into his second term, President Obama officially took on the issue of immigration today. He said it comes down to a simple question: whether the country and the government have the resolve, finally, to deal with the long-festering national challenge.

　　The president launched his effort in Nevada, where more than a quarter of the state's residents are Hispanic.

　　PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA, United States: I'm here today because the time has come for commonsense¹ comprehensive immigration reform.

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　　JUDY WOODRUFF:The campaign-style event at a Las Vegas high school came a day after a bipartisan group of eight U.S. senators put forward their own plan. It calls for creating a path to legal citizenship² for the 11 million undocumented people now estimated to be living in the U.S.

　　Implementing³ that policy would be contingent⁴ on securing the southern border. Seven years ago, then Senator Obama joined a similar effort.

　　BARACK OBAMA: If the compromise that's been discussed and has the agreement of those who were in this room, if that ends up being the bill that is signed into law, it's a win-win for everybody.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF:Today, President Obama praised the new Senate effort. But he said the path to citizenship must be clear from the start and not just be tied to border security.

　　BARACK OBAMA: We have got to lay out a path, a process that includes passing a background check, paying taxes, paying a penalty, learning English, and then going to the back of the line behind all the folks who are trying to come here legally.

　　That's only fair.

　　All right? So that means it won't be a quick process, but it will be a fair process.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF:Back in Washington, Florida Republican Marco Rubio, a member of the bipartisan Senate group, still seemed concerned the president wanted to move too far too fast.

　　SEN. MARCO RUBIO,R-Fla.: If this endeavor becomes a bidding war to see who can come up with the easiest, quickest and cheapest pathway to green card possible, this thing is not going to go well, folks.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF:And Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell said he's withholding⁵ judgment⁶ for now.

　　SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL, R-Ky.: I think predicting how one is going to vote on this package before it gets out of committee is something I'm not prepared to do.

　　But I will say -- what I will say is there is obviously bipartisan desire to move forward on immigration legislation. And my assumption is the majority leader will be doing that.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF:That would be Nevada Democrat⁷ Harry⁸ Reid, who said lawmakers must act soon.

　　SEN. HARRY REID, D-Nev.: I'm very, very hopeful. The president is in Las Vegas today. He has put his arms around the four senators on the Democratic side and the Republican side, but with a caveat⁹. He is not going to wait around forever to actually have legislation that we move on.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF:On the NewsHour last night, two members of the bipartisan group talked up their plan's prospect¹⁰.

　　Democrat Dick Durbin of Illinois:

　　SEN. DICK DURBIN, D-Ill.: Well, I don't want to say confident because I'm a senator.

　　DICK DURBIN: And, you know, I spend my whole life disappointed. I have been 12 years on the DREAM Act.

　　But I have never felt better about it and more positive.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF:And Arizona Republican Jeff Flake¹¹, who said the election results got lawmakers' attention, even those who doubt immigration reform.

　　SEN. JEFF FLAKE, R-Ariz.: There is motivation to get it behind us for those who don't want to deal with it as well. And so I think that we have the planets aligned¹² here now to move ahead.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF:The biggest hurdle¹³ could come in the Republican-controlled House, where another bipartisan group is working on a competing plan. The first House committee hearing takes place next Tuesday.

　　GWEN IFILL:We take a closer look now at how the politics of the immigration debate are unfolding with Clarissa Martinez de Castro, director of civic¹⁴ engagement and immigration for the National Council of La Raza, and Kris Kobach, the Kansas secretary of state who helped write Arizona's strict immigration law.

　　Welcome to you both.

　　Clarissa Martinez de Castro, as you listened to the president say we have come so far so fast, as you listened to Marco Rubio say maybe too fast, does it feel like you have turned a corner in this fight?

　　CLARISSA MARTINEZ DE CASTRO, National Council of La Raza: Definitely have turned the corner.

　　And the reality is that it may seem fast, but let's not forget that this issue of immigration has been debated in Congress numerous times. One of the reasons why we are moving forward with it is because indeed so much ground has been laid before in previous debates. And I think what we have right now is the political imperative¹⁵, the moral imperative, and the economic imperative aligning¹⁶ to create the pressure and the space that Congress needs to take action.

　　GWEN IFILL:Kris Kobach, what about those imperatives¹⁷? Are they coming together in a way that you would like to see them?

　　SECRETARY OF STATE KRIS KOBACH, Kansas: Well, I actually don't think they're coming together in the way that so many people who are hyping this supposedly momentum¹⁸ think they're coming together.

　　There's one really big factor that everybody is missing here. And that is the biggest stumbling block to an amnesty for 11 million or more illegal aliens, and that is the price tag. The last time an amnesty of similar size was contemplated¹⁹ in the Congress was 2007. And it was calculated that it would cost the country $2.6 trillion over 10 years because you make all of these predominantly low-skilled illegal aliens eligible²⁰ for food stamps, WIC, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, all welfare programs.

　　And the -- because their contributions into the system are so much lower than a higher-skilled, higher-wage employee, they will be net drags on our fiscal²¹ problem. So we will be $2.6 trillion farther in the hole. We have to remember the number-one thing in front of Congress right now is fixing our fiscal mess. And this is just going to make our debt problem so much worse.

　　So I think once the numbers start coming out on the proposal and once it's actually laid out in terms of bill language, you're going to see a lot of members of both parties stepping back and saying, oh, I didn't realize it would cause that problem. And so I would ...

　　GWEN IFILL:You have made your point.

　　I wanted Clarissa Martinez de Castro to respond to the cost question.

　　CLARISSA MARTINEZ DE CASTRO:Actually, this is a very interesting thing.

　　The 2006 immigration bill had a congressional budget score of a net gain of $12 billion. And the 2007 bill had a Congressional Budget Office score of $24 billion. And so I think most economic studies out there have confirmed that there is expected to see a net gain to our economy from a legalization program, but the most important thing...

　　KRIS KOBACH: The CBO score ...

　　GWEN IFILL:Allow her to -- just allow her to finish. Just allow her to finish. And I will be right back with you.

　　KRIS KOBACH: OK.

　　CLARISSA MARTINEZ DE CASTRO: But the most important thing to also take into account is that, over the past four years, 1.6 million immigrants have been deported²², and just last year at a cost of $18 billion.

　　And so I think what we need really is an immigration system for the 21st century. I know Mr. Kobach wants to keep promoting anti-immigrant laws and in many ways is opposed to illegal immigration, but we need a system that works.

　　GWEN IFILL:Mr. Kobach?

　　KRIS KOBACH: Well, I think that last characterization was completely inaccurate²³.

　　I and many other Americans who favor the rule of law are very much in favor of legal immigration. We are a country based on the rule of law, but illegal immigration does no good for our economy. And in terms of those costs, the CBO numbers don't take into account those -- the Medicaid, Medicare and all the other welfare program costs in the out-years.

　　So, it is a huge, huge drag on our fiscal situation if we basically give access to all of these programs to this large number of people. And then we also have to remember what happened last time we had an amnesty in 1986. Immediately, we saw 398,000 cases of fraud. Those are the ones the INS caught, where people came into the country and claimed they were eligible when they really weren't, or in the case of Mahmud "The Red" Abouhalima, one of the ringleaders of the 1993 attacks on the World Trade Center, he claimed he was eligible.

　　He was already in the country. He was in New York City driving a cab. He claimed he was an agricultural worker. So, there's going to be all kinds of fraud.

　　GWEN IFILL:OK.

　　Clarissa Martinez de Castro, I want to ask you about another piece of this, big piece of this, and this is the border security part. Both sides seem to agree, both the White House and the Senate group and the people who are working on this in the House, that nothing can happen unless there's some sort of agreement on border security, on enforcement triggers.

　　Is this -- do we see anything emerging that would speak to that or that we could really measure it?

　　CLARISSA MARTINEZ DE CASTRO: I think the president has a pretty strong track record on that arena²⁴.

　　GWEN IFILL:Too strong a track record for you?

　　CLARISSA MARTINEZ DE CASTRO: Well, the facts are the facts.

　　He has in fact committed more resources to the border, more boots on the ground. He has the numbers to prove it. He's deported more people than any previous administration. And the reality is that a lot of those things have been exhausted²⁵. The next step is to have legislation to fix some of other pieces, like a verification process that works not just for employers, but also for workers, right?

　　We want to make sure that people who are eligible to work don't get prevented from having a job because of errors in the program. Where we are right now is that we have tinkered around the edges of this problem so long, we have exhausted that. Now we need to take the bull by the horns and really fix -- you know, fix the rule of law. And a legalization program is a critical part of that, but also preserve the rule of law by having a working legal immigration system.

　　GWEN IFILL:Kris Kobach, what about that? Is there a working legal immigration system in place, and do any of the plans you hear being discussed ensure that?

　　KRIS KOBACH: Well, I mean, our legal immigration system is working. And it's the most generous one on the planet.

　　And we regularly bring in more than a million green cards holders²⁶ every year. And we process hundreds of thousands of non-immigrant visas, which are temporary visas, every year. This claim that the system is broke and that somehow we have to just start all over from scratch is wrong.

　　And as far as her claim that the Obama administration has a record to run on enforcing the law, they have brought work site enforcement to a halt. And their numbers, the deportation²⁷ numbers, it was revealed by a congressional inquiry²⁸ last year that actually they have been cooking the books and counting turnarounds at the border as deportations since 2010. And those were never counted before.

　　So, once you take those out, we see that deportation numbers, not surprisingly, are way down right now. And as far as the proposal that the senators came up with, there's really not much there on the enforcement side of the equation. So, it's a very lopsided proposal. And I think that too is probably going to give some Republicans pause, especially in the House.

　　CLARISSA MARTINEZ DE CASTRO: Gwen, the reality is that I think, like the majority of the American public, I'm not interested in a food fight.

　　I'm interested in putting a solution on the table. And I think that the fact that we have an undocumented population of this size speaks to the fact that the system is not working.

　　GWEN IFILL:Kris Kobach, the final word, briefly²⁹.

　　KRIS KOBACH: Well, it speaks to the fact that we haven't tried a strategy of strictly³⁰ enforcing our laws and encouraging people to comply with the law, which means go home.

　　GWEN IFILL:Kris Kobach, the Kansas secretary of state, and Clarissa Martinez de Castro of the National Council of La Raza, thank you both very much.

　　CLARISSA MARTINEZ DE CASTRO: Thank you. Thank you.

　　KRIS KOBACH: Thank you.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF:There's more on the immigration debate online. NewsHour political editor Christina Bellantoni talked to two activists³¹ from past reform efforts.

1 commonsense   

adj.有常识的；明白事理的；注重实际的

参考例句：

• It is commonsense to carry an umbrella in this weather.这种天气带把伞是很自然的。
• These results are no more than a vindication of commonsense analysis.这些结果只不过是按常理分析得出的事实。

2 citizenship   

n.市民权，公民权，国民的义务(身份)

参考例句：

• He was born in Sweden,but he doesn't have Swedish citizenship.他在瑞典出生，但没有瑞典公民身分。
• Ten years later,she chose to take Australian citizenship.十年后，她选择了澳大利亚国籍。

3 implementing   

v.实现( implement的现在分词 )；执行；贯彻；使生效

参考例句：

• -- Implementing a comprehensive drug control strategy. ――实行综合治理的禁毒战略。 来自汉英非文学 - 白皮书
• He was in no hurry about implementing his unshakable principle. 他并不急于实行他那不可动摇的原则。 来自辞典例句

4 contingent   

adj.视条件而定的；n.一组，代表团，分遣队

参考例句：

• The contingent marched in the direction of the Western Hills.队伍朝西山的方向前进。
• Whether or not we arrive on time is contingent on the weather.我们是否按时到达要视天气情况而定。

5 withholding   

扣缴税款

参考例句：

• She was accused of withholding information from the police. 她被指控对警方知情不报。
• The judge suspected the witness was withholding information. 法官怀疑见证人在隐瞒情况。

6 judgment   

n.审判；判断力，识别力，看法，意见

参考例句：

• The chairman flatters himself on his judgment of people.主席自认为他审视人比别人高明。
• He's a man of excellent judgment.他眼力过人。

7 democrat   

n.民主主义者，民主人士；民主党党员

参考例句：

• The Democrat and the Public criticized each other.民主党人和共和党人互相攻击。
• About two years later,he was defeated by Democrat Jimmy Carter.大约两年后，他被民主党人杰米卡特击败。

8 harry   

vt.掠夺，蹂躏，使苦恼

参考例句：

• Today,people feel more hurried and harried.今天，人们感到更加忙碌和苦恼。
• Obama harried business by Healthcare Reform plan.奥巴马用医改掠夺了商界。

9 caveat   

n.警告； 防止误解的说明

参考例句：

• I would offer a caveat for those who want to join me in the dual calling.为防止发生误解，我想对那些想要步我后尘的人提出警告。
• As I have written before,that's quite a caveat.正如我以前所写，那确实是个警告。

10 prospect   

n.前景，前途；景色，视野

参考例句：

• This state of things holds out a cheerful prospect.事态呈现出可喜的前景。
• The prospect became more evident.前景变得更加明朗了。

11 flake   

v.使成薄片；雪片般落下；n.薄片

参考例句：

• Drain the salmon,discard the skin,crush the bones and flake the salmon with a fork.将鲑鱼沥干，去表皮，粉碎鱼骨并用餐叉子将鱼肉切成小薄片状。
• The paint's beginning to flake.油漆开始剥落了。

12 aligned   

adj.对齐的，均衡的

参考例句：

• Make sure the shelf is aligned with the top of the cupboard.务必使搁架与橱柜顶端对齐。

13 hurdle   

n.跳栏，栏架；障碍，困难；vi.进行跨栏赛

参考例句：

• The weather will be the biggest hurdle so I have to be ready.天气将会是最大的障碍，所以我必须要作好准备。
• She clocked 11.6 seconds for the 80 metre hurdle.八十米跳栏赛跑她跑了十一秒六。

14 civic   

adj.城市的，都市的，市民的，公民的

参考例句：

• I feel it is my civic duty to vote.我认为投票选举是我作为公民的义务。
• The civic leaders helped to forward the project.市政府领导者协助促进工程的进展。

15 imperative   

n.命令，需要；规则；祈使语气；adj.强制的；紧急的

参考例句：

• He always speaks in an imperative tone of voice.他老是用命令的口吻讲话。
• The events of the past few days make it imperative for her to act.过去这几天发生的事迫使她不得不立即行动。

16 aligning   

n. (直线)对准 动词align的现在分词形式

参考例句：

• There are signs that the prime minister is aligning himself with the liberals. 有迹象表明首相正在与自由党人结盟。
• ToolTips provide textual hints that assist in drawing lines and aligning objects. 工具提示提供了协助画线和对象对齐的文本提示。 来自About Face 3交互设计精髓

17 imperatives   

n.必要的事( imperative的名词复数 )；祈使语气；必须履行的责任

参考例句：

• Nixon, however, had other imperatives. 但尼克松另有需要。 来自辞典例句
• There could be some cultural imperatives in there somewhere! 在公共传播那里，在某些方面，可能有更迫切的文化需要！ 来自互联网

18 momentum   

n.动力，冲力，势头；动量

参考例句：

• We exploit the energy and momentum conservation laws in this way.我们就是这样利用能量和动量守恒定律的。
• The law of momentum conservation could supplant Newton's third law.动量守恒定律可以取代牛顿第三定律。

19 contemplated   

adj. 预期的 动词contemplate的过去分词形式

参考例句：

• The doctor contemplated the difficult operation he had to perform. 医生仔细地考虑他所要做的棘手的手术。
• The government has contemplated reforming the entire tax system. 政府打算改革整个税收体制。

20 eligible   

adj.有条件被选中的；(尤指婚姻等)合适(意)的

参考例句：

• He is an eligible young man.他是一个合格的年轻人。
• Helen married an eligible bachelor.海伦嫁给了一个中意的单身汉。

21 fiscal   

adj.财政的，会计的，国库的，国库岁入的

参考例句：

• The increase of taxation is an important fiscal policy.增税是一项重要的财政政策。
• The government has two basic strategies of fiscal policy available.政府有两个可行的财政政策基本战略。

22 deported   

v.将…驱逐出境( deport的过去式和过去分词 )；举止

参考例句：

• They stripped me of my citizenship and deported me. 他们剥夺我的公民资格，将我驱逐出境。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• The convicts were deported to a deserted island. 罪犯们被流放到一个荒岛。 来自《简明英汉词典》

23 inaccurate   

adj.错误的，不正确的，不准确的

参考例句：

• The book is both inaccurate and exaggerated.这本书不但不准确，而且夸大其词。
• She never knows the right time because her watch is inaccurate.她从来不知道准确的时间因为她的表不准。

24 arena   

n.竞技场，运动场所；竞争场所，舞台

参考例句：

• She entered the political arena at the age of 25. 她25岁进入政界。
• He had not an adequate arena for the exercise of his talents.他没有充分发挥其才能的场所。

25 exhausted   

adj.极其疲惫的，精疲力尽的

参考例句：

• It was a long haul home and we arrived exhausted.搬运回家的这段路程特别长，到家时我们已筋疲力尽。
• Jenny was exhausted by the hustle of city life.珍妮被城市生活的忙乱弄得筋疲力尽。

26 holders   

支持物( holder的名词复数 )； 持有者； （支票等）持有人； 支托（或握持）…之物

参考例句：

• Slaves were mercilessly ground down by slave holders. 奴隶受奴隶主的残酷压迫。
• It is recognition of compassion's part that leads the up-holders of capital punishment to accuse the abolitionists of sentimentality in being more sorry for the murderer than for his victim. 正是对怜悯的作用有了认识，才使得死刑的提倡者指控主张废除死刑的人感情用事，同情谋杀犯胜过同情受害者。

27 deportation   

n.驱逐，放逐

参考例句：

• The government issued a deportation order against the four men.政府发出了对那4名男子的驱逐令。
• Years ago convicted criminals in England could face deportation to Australia.很多年以前，英国已定罪的犯人可能被驱逐到澳大利亚。

28 inquiry   

n.打听，询问，调查，查问

参考例句：

• Many parents have been pressing for an inquiry into the problem.许多家长迫切要求调查这个问题。
• The field of inquiry has narrowed down to five persons.调查的范围已经缩小到只剩5个人了。

29 briefly   

adv.简单地，简短地

参考例句：

• I want to touch briefly on another aspect of the problem.我想简单地谈一下这个问题的另一方面。
• He was kidnapped and briefly detained by a terrorist group.他被一个恐怖组织绑架并短暂拘禁。

30 strictly   

adv.严厉地，严格地；严密地

参考例句：

• His doctor is dieting him strictly.他的医生严格规定他的饮食。
• The guests were seated strictly in order of precedence.客人严格按照地位高低就座。

31 activists   

n.（政治活动的）积极分子，活动家( activist的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• His research work was attacked by animal rights activists . 他的研究受到了动物权益维护者的抨击。
• Party activists with lower middle class pedigrees are numerous. 党的激进分子中有很多出身于中产阶级下层。 来自《简明英汉词典》