美国国家公共电台 NPR Ex-Trump Lawyer Michael Cohen Should Get 'Substantial Prison Term,' Feds Say（在线收听）

MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:

Federal prosecutors are requesting substantial prison time for President Trump's former personal lawyer and fixer, Michael Cohen. Cohen has pleaded guilty to financial crimes, campaign finance violations and lying to Congress. NPR justice reporter Ryan Lucas is here with us in the studio again. Hello again, Ryan.

RYAN LUCAS, BYLINE: Hello again.

KELLY: So you've gone through these latest court filings. What are the prosecutors saying?

LUCAS: Well, there are two court filings here, it's important to note. One is by the U.S. attorney's office in the Southern District of New York, and the other is by Special Counsel Robert Mueller's office. Now, the U.S. Attorney's Office in New York, its file - its filing is related to Cohen's guilty plea to financial crimes, campaign finance violations committed in New York. This filing is not good news for Cohen. Prosecutors say that he committed at least four serious crimes. They say he was motivated by personal greed. And they reject Cohen's appeal for leniency from the judge. Cohen had been asking for time served, so in essence no time...

KELLY: No more prison time. Right.

LUCAS: ...No time in jail. Prosecutors in New York say, nope, we're not game with that. They are asking for Cohen to get from four to five years in prison.

KELLY: All right. So that's the first filing, from the U.S. Attorney's Office in New York. What about the other one that's coming from Special Counsel Mueller's office?

LUCAS: Well, Mueller's team does not have a recommendation as to a particular sentence. But in the document today - it's seven pages - we learned more about Cohen's cooperation and what he's been telling investigators.

KELLY: And what more did we learn? What has he been talking about?

LUCAS: Well, Mueller's team says that over the course of seven meetings that it has had with Cohen, he has provided what they call relevant and truthful information. For example, they say he's provided information about his own contacts with Russian interests during the campaign, discussions with others while making those contacts. He's provided information about certain, quote, "discreet Russia-related matters" core to the investigation. They say he obtained this by virtue of his regular contact with Trump Organization executives during the campaign.

That could point to members of the Trump family who hold senior positions in the Trump organization. They also say that he's provided information about his contact with people connected to the White House in 2017 and 2018, so it connects us to the White House there. And finally, it says that he has described the circumstances around preparing and circulating his response to congressional inquiries while continuing to accept responsibility for what were ultimately false statements. That, of course, relates to the lies he's admitted telling Congress about efforts to build this Trump Tower in Moscow.

KELLY: So a lot of information packed into this - what is it - 38-page document we've got in front of us and, interestingly, none of it redacted. Let me ask you about one other thing we learned today from the U.S. attorney's office, that Cohen does not have a formal cooperation deal. Why not?

LUCAS: That's right. Well, Cohen's lawyers said in their sentencing memo, in their request - they said that he didn't have a formal deal because basically he wants to move on from this. This has destroyed his life, and he needs to move forward and look ahead. What the U.S. attorney's office in the Southern District of New York is saying is that he doesn't have a formal deal because he's declined to provide information about additional criminal conduct that he may personally have engaged in or that he may have knowledge of. Now...

KELLY: So he cooperated, but not enough.

LUCAS: He cooperated, but normally, in order to get a cooperation deal, you have to provide information about all criminal conduct that you have knowledge of. You do that, and then the government generally - or often - will ask the court to go easy on you. Now, Cohen is asking, as I said, for no time served - sorry - for time served, so no time at all. We now know that the government is asking for up to five years - very different perspective there. The decision ultimately lies in the hands of a federal judge in Manhattan who will make that decision on December 12.

KELLY: Next week. NPR justice reporter Ryan Lucas, thanks.

LUCAS: Thank you.