美国国家公共电台 NPR 亲信斯通获刑40个月 特朗普或要特赦（在线收听）

President Trump's longtime ally Roger Stone was sentenced today to three years and four months in prison. Stone was convicted last fall of witness tampering, obstruction and lying to Congress in a case resulting from the Mueller investigation. NPR's justice correspondent Ryan Lucas was at the federal courthouse here in Washington, where Stone was sentenced this morning. And Ryan's here with us now.

特朗普总统的长期盟友罗杰·斯通今天被判处三年零四个月监禁。去年秋天，斯通在穆勒调查引出的案件中被判犯有篡改证词、妨碍司法、向国会作虚假证词等罪名。斯通于今天早上在华盛顿联邦法庭被判刑，NPR新闻的司法记者瑞安·卢卡斯当时在现场。现在我们将连线瑞安。

Hey there.

你好。

RYAN LUCAS, BYLINE: Hi there.

瑞安·卢卡斯连线：你好。

SHAPIRO: Roger Stone is a famously colorful character, so just describe what the scene was like at the courthouse today.

夏皮罗：罗杰·斯通是著名的丰富多彩的人物，请描述一下今天庭审现场的情况。

LUCAS: Well, there was certainly a buzz in the air. There was a phalanx of television cameras and photographers at both entrances to the courthouse. When I was walking in this morning, Stone's supporters were unfurling a giant black-and-white banner with a picture of Stone with his arms raised and the hashtag #pardonrogerstone. The courtroom itself was packed. Stone's friends and acolytes certainly turned out. But his opponents were there as well. When Stone stepped out of the courthouse after his sentencing, he was met outside by a crowd of people, some of whom were shouting lock him up. And there were others who were chanting pardon Roger Stone.

卢卡斯：现场非常吵闹。法庭的两个入口都有大批电视摄像机和摄影记者。今天早上我走进法庭时，斯通的支持者正在展开一个巨大的横幅，上面是斯通举起双臂的照片，写着“#赦免罗杰斯通”。法庭上人满为患。斯通的朋友和助手当然出席了庭审。而且他的反对者也出现在庭审现场。宣判结束后斯通走出法庭，外面有一群人在等着他，有些人高喊“将他关进监狱”。其他人则高呼“赦免罗杰·斯通”。

SHAPIRO: As you have chronicled, this sentencing has received so much scrutiny and public debate and attention. So how did the judge, Amy Berman Jackson, ultimately justify the sentence that she handed down?

夏皮罗：你此前报道过，这一判决受到了大量审查并引发了公众辩论和关注。那法官艾米·伯曼·杰克逊最终是如何为她做出的裁决辩护的？

LUCAS: Judge Jackson had a lot to say today. She spoke for nearly an hour and went point by point through how she came to her decision.

卢卡斯：杰克逊法官今天有很多话要说。她的讲话持续近1个小时，逐一对她做出决定的过程进行了说明。

SHAPIRO: Wow.

夏皮罗：哇哦。

LUCAS: She said that Stone was not prosecuted — as some of his supporters, including the president, have claimed — for standing up for Trump. She said that Stone was prosecuted for covering up for Trump. Jackson said that Stone took it upon himself to lie to Congress and obstruct its investigation into Russia's interference in the 2016 election. And Judge Jackson made clear that lying to Congress, obstructing a legitimate investigation, is serious business. Stone — she called Stone's actions a threat to America's institutions, the foundations of this country's democracy.

卢卡斯：她表示，包括总统在内，斯通的支持者称他是因为维护特朗普而遭到起诉，但这并不是事实。她说，斯通被起诉的原因是替特朗普掩盖真相。杰克逊表示，斯通自作主张地向国会作伪证，并妨碍国会就俄罗斯干预2016年美国总统大选进行的调查。杰克逊法官明确表示，向国会作伪证和妨碍合法调查是严重的事情。她称斯通的行为对美国体制——即美国的民主基础——构成威胁。

Stone's defense said during the trial that his lies to Congress essentially didn't matter. They said, at root, who cares? Judge Jackson knocked that down today. She said Congress cares. The Justice Department cares. The jurors who heard this case care. And pointedly, she said, the American people care, and Judge Jackson herself cares.

斯通的辩护律师在庭审期间表示，基本上来说，斯通向国会作伪证并不重要。律师称，从根本上来说，谁在乎？杰克逊法官今天指责了这种说法。她说，国会在乎。司法部在乎。审理此案的陪审团在乎。她直截了当地说，美国公民在乎，杰克逊法官本人也在乎。

SHAPIRO: So prosecutors had originally recommended seven to nine years in prison, more than twice what he received today.

夏皮罗：检察官最初建议判处斯通七到九年监禁，这一刑期是今天最终判决的两倍以上。

LUCAS: Right.

卢卡斯：没错。

SHAPIRO: That led to this back-and-forth between the president and the attorney general, Bill Barr. Remind us what those two said about that original sentencing recommendation.

夏皮罗：这引发了总统和司法部长比尔·巴尔之间的交锋。请帮我们回忆一下二人对最初的量刑建议作何表态。

LUCAS: Well, this whole process, kind of cascade of events, has been playing out over the last week. It began, again, as the prosecutors in the case recommended a seven-to-nine-year sentence for Stone in their original sentencing memo. The president then tweeted that he thought that this was unfair. He called this essentially a miscarriage of justice.

卢卡斯：整个过程、这一连串事件在过去一周一直不断发展。负责这起案件的检察官在最初的量刑备忘录上建议判处斯通七到九年监禁。之后，总统在推特上表示，他认为这不公平。他称这从本质上来说就是误判。

A few hours later, the attorney general intervened. The Justice Department filed a second sentencing memo and recommended a lighter sentence, prompting the four prosecutors who handled Stone's prosecution at trial — they then withdrew from the case. All of this had this kind of blow-up effect and raised a lot of questions about possible political interference in the justice system and, of course, politicization of the Justice Department in the Trump administration.

几个小时之后，司法部长介入。司法部提交了第二份量刑备忘录，建议减刑，这导致四名负责庭审诉讼的检察官撤出该案。这一切产生了一种爆炸效应并引发了许多问题，比如司法系统可能受到政治干预，以及特朗普政府的司法部已经政治化。

SHAPIRO: And now the question is whether President Trump is likely to pardon Stone after a week in which he's already issued a lot of pardons.

夏皮罗：现在的问题是特朗普总统是否有可能赦免斯通，毕竟一周以来他已经颁布了许多赦免令。

LUCAS: There are a — yes. And there are a number of steps potentially before we get there. There's still a motion pending for a new trial in this case. Judge Jackson says she will rule on that soon. If that fails, Stone is likely to appeal. We have to say that Stone is still out on bond — out on bail as this process plays out. There is, yes, as you mentioned, a possible presidential pardon. Trump was actually asked about this this afternoon. Here's what he said.

卢卡斯：没错。在此之前可能会有很多步骤。这起案件的复审动议还未决定。杰克逊法官表示，她将很快对此作出裁决。如果复审动议未通过，那斯通很可能会上诉。我们必须指出，在此期间，斯通仍可以获得保释。如你所说，他还可能得到总统赦免。特朗普在今天下午被问到了这个问题。下面是他的回答。

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

（录音档案）

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I'm not going to do anything in terms of the great powers bestowed upon a president of the United States. I want the process to play out. I think that's the best thing to do because I'd love to see Roger exonerated.

唐纳德·特朗普总统：就美国总统被授予的伟大权力而言，我不会做任何事。我希望这个过程继续下去。我认为这是最好的方法，因为我希望看到罗杰无罪释放。

LUCAS: Now, for that process to play out, that timeline may take it past the election. But important point here — the president is certainly leaving the door open to a possible pardon for Stone down the road.

卢卡斯：让进程继续，意味着可能要到选举结束后才能有定论。但重要的是，总统一定会为今后赦免斯通敞开大门。

SHAPIRO: NPR's Ryan Lucas, thank you.

夏皮罗：以上是NPR新闻的瑞安·卢卡斯带来的报道，谢谢你。

LUCAS: Thank you.

卢卡斯：谢谢。