PBS高端访谈:我们拿亚洲鲤鱼怎么办（在线收听）

HARI SREENIVASAN: As we reported earlier this month, Asian carp, the fast-growing invasive species in lakes and rivers throughout the Mississippi basin, have become a major issue in the Midwest and officials are spending hundreds of millions of dollars to stop them from entering Lake Michigan. One strategy: pay fisherman and get people to eat the carp. It's not normally a fish dish in America, but the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign is serving up thousands of pounds of Asian carp a year, filling students' bellies with a cheap and local source of protein while helping solve a major invasive species problem.

CLINT CARTER: We got some Bighead, Grass carp and Silver carp. I'm Clint Carter. And I'm a commercial fisherman. We caught fish today in Peoria, Illinois. We caught about 4000 pounds. We went out about 7 o'clock in the morning. There were seven fish brought here today.

SOOHWA YU: Wow, this is a big one.

CLINT CARTER: These fish were alive about four hours ago. So, they're fresh. I've been working with of U of I for probably around three years now.

SOOHWA YU: In my career, I never met the fisherman that actually caught the fish. And it's great to know who the fisherman is. I'm Soohwa Yu. My title is production chef at the Pennsylvania Avenue Dining Hall. In the Midwest, it's hard to get fresh fish. Fortunate to have Clint bringing the fresh fish, as we need it, all the time.

KIT SMITH: My name is Kim Smith. I'm the assistant director of dining for procurements. We have a sustainable seafood program. The Silver fin, the carp is part of that program. The issue is in our own backyard. We figured we have a good source of protein with our own river system. So we wanted to take advantage of that and help solve the issue that we have with the species.

CLINT CARTER: These fish are very widespread. They're causing a lot of trouble. They kind of take over. So, eating them you know not only reduces the risk for the Great Lakes, but creating a demand for them puts people like me out there to get them out of the water and let other fish bounce back in the entire 20 plus states they've actually taken over.

KIT SMITH: The two biggest challenges, one is obviously the reputation that fish has had over the years. People think carp, they think muddy, or bottom feeder. You may hear the term, trash fish. But we prefer the term, underloved fish. The other big hurdle is the amount of bones, it's a very bony fish.

SOOHWA YU: This fish is a little difficult to work with because there's a lot of bones on it. Today I've prepared a Japanese style, Chinese style and like a South American style. Japanese style is like a smoked carp with a bed of rice, served with green tea. Deep fried carp, we do like Cantonese style. And carp cake, Silver fin slider. We do it once a week.

KIT SMITH: We're averaging about, anywhere from about nine to eleven thousand pounds a year. But, it grows month by month as we get more recipes. The current college students, Gen Z, they're more open to diverse and new food experiences. It's just trying to think outside the box, trying something different. So a lot of time is just getting people to try that first bite.

CHEF: That's my favorite, this one.

BETHANY ZMUDA: Alright, awsome, thank you so much.

BETHANY ZMUDA: Invasive species are always a huge problem. I mean, I think since there's a surplus of this, I think it's a really great way to use it. And I loved the dish.

JON CARLO SORIANO: Ah, no I did not know anything about silver fin. Something brand new to me that I never knew about. And it's actually really delicious.

SOOHWA YU: I'm almost out of fish so, seems Like everybody enjoyed it.

哈里·斯瑞尼瓦桑：我们本月初已经报道过，亚洲鲤鱼作为增长速度最快的入侵性物种普遍存在于密西西比盆地的湖泊河流，已经成为中西部地区的一个重大问题。一些工作人员斥资数亿美元以阻止亚洲鲤鱼进入密歇根湖。有一个策略是：给渔民付钱，让他们吃掉这些鲤鱼。这不是一般的鱼料理，伊利诺伊大学厄巴纳-尚佩恩分校每年都要消费数千磅的亚洲鲤鱼。所以，学生们既能吃到当地廉价的鱼肉蛋白，也能助力解决物种入侵的问题。

克林特·卡特：我们这里有胖头鱼、草鱼、银鲤。我是克林特·卡特。我是一名渔民。我们今天在伊利诺斯州捕了鱼，大概重达4000磅。我们早上大概7点出门，这里有7只今天捉到的鱼。

于：这条鱼真大。

克林特·卡特：这些鱼大概4小时前还活着，都很新鲜。我跟伊利诺伊大学合作了大概3年了。

于：我的职业生涯中，从未见过哪个渔民是真地捕鱼的。很高兴能认识这样的渔民。我是于。我在宾夕法尼亚州的大道餐厅当厨师。在美国的中西部地区，很难吃到新鲜的鱼。很幸运，有克林特这样的渔民为我们带来新鲜的鱼肉，我们一直都很需要新鲜的鱼肉。

基特·史密斯：我是基特·史密斯，是采购部的助理负责人。我们的海鲜供应一直都很稳定，银鳍就是其中一种。问题出在我们的后院。我们发现自己的河流系统中有很好的蛋白质来源。所以我们想充分利用这个来源，并助力解决这个问题。

克林特·卡特：这些鱼类分布的都很广，也引发了很多问题。他们反客为主了，所以，以它们为食不仅可以减少五大湖面临的威胁，也可以激发像我这样的人对这些鱼类的需求。这样另外20个州的其他鱼类数量才会上升。

基特·史密斯：目前面临的2个最大的挑战，1个是多年来，众所周知，这些鱼类一直占据着高位。一提到鲤鱼，大家就会想到在泥泞的河流底层生活的鱼类，甚至可能听到垃圾鱼类的字眼。但我们更喜欢用未获得充分关注的宝藏鱼类。还有一个挑战就是鲤鱼有很多鱼骨。

于：鲤鱼很难处理，里面有很多鱼骨。今天，我们准备了日式风格、中式风格和南美洲风格。日式风格是将鱼熏制之后，配上米饭和绿茶。粤式风格是炸鱼，我们很喜欢。此外，还有鲤鱼蛋糕和银鳍。我们一般一周吃一次。

基特·史密斯：我们平均一年吃9000-1.1万英镑的鱼。每个月，我们都会有新的食谱，所以消耗鱼的总量也会随月上升。现在的一些大学生，比如根，他们对多元化的新食谱持开放态度。我只是想跳脱在窠臼之外去看事情，尝试不同的角度。所以我用很多时间让别人去尝试吃不同的食物。

厨师：这道菜我很喜欢。

宝芬妮：很好，不错，非常感谢。

宝芬妮：入侵性物种确实是很大的问题。我的意思是：它们数量太多，要找到合理的方法来消耗。而且我本人很喜欢吃鱼。

乔恩·卡洛·索里亚诺：我一点都不了解银鳍。这对于我来说是个新大陆，而且真地很好吃。

于：我觉得鱼都不够吃了，因为大家都很喜欢。