PBS高端访谈:电影与气候科学的关系（在线收听）

Hari Sreenivasan: What's a subject scientists can analyze when they watch the Oscars tonight? If You guessed climate change you'll want to hear from our guest Kate Marvel an associate research scientist at Columbia University and a co-host of a very unique podcast that combines cinema with climate science.

Kate Marvel: We've realized that people like science but what people really love is bad movies. And if we can combine science and bad movies then that's really productive.

Hari Sreenivasan: What is Hollywood getting so wrong, especially in science related films?

Kate Marvel: So I'm a climate scientist and so far we've watched I would say three climate science related films The Day After Tomorrow, Sharknado and Geostorm, and all of these are really kind of disaster movies right? There are so many disasters and they're all happening at the same time. But in the real world, climate change is happening, it's happening right now, it's here and it's us but it's not the only thing that people care about. San Francisco, for a little bit, had the worst air quality of any city on the planet. And I think it's starting to hit home that climate change has the ability to reshape our lives in ways that maybe we hadn't really thought about before.

Hari Sreenivasan: So in the background of a movie, the air quality could just be one of the characters that kind of influences it versus a disaster all in one day of an breathable air?

Kate Marvel: Exactly. And you know I don't want to say that climate change isn't causing disasters like we know a scientist that extreme events like heat waves and floods and droughts are projected to get more intense in the future. But climate change isn't the only story, right? People care about whether they're going to be able to put food on the table, people care about economic justice, racial justice, people care about education. People care about how our society is organized. And all of these things are going to be affected by the fact that the planet that we live on is fundamentally changing.

Hari Sreenivasan: And your concern is that Hollywood has a tremendous amount of power in how they frame this narrative that we take away from when we go from oh, it's a fun movie but really in the back from some little sliver sticks?

Kate Marvel: I think so. And I think there's a danger in setting a standard where you don't have to care about something unless it's going to literally doom all life on the planet. Because I feel like I have higher standards than that. You know? I don't wake up in the morning and say well I didn't go extinct today, must have been a good day. You know, I think we can really sort of aspire to something better than that.

Hari Sreenivasan: Are there any good Hollywood movies or examples of anybody getting it right?

Kate Marvel: So I love Mad Max Fury Road.

Hari Sreenivasan: That is really dark!

Kate Marvel: I think it's just a great entertaining movie but I think what it does is it shows the sort of insane bananas society that's taking place in the future and nobody is ever like well, climate change caused these desert conditions but it's always there in the background. But it's really a story about I mean, it's a story about things blowing up. But it's this story about this weird society of the future.

Hari Sreenivasan: Is there something that trickles down into classrooms and how young people's thinking about climate science changes over time if they're exposed to different kinds of narratives?

Kate Marvel: I think so and I actually think young people are in a sense ahead of us you know, young people understand that this is their world that they're growing up on and they have a very vested interest in a stable climate. So I think young people are already sort of starting to get the message. And I think it's it's us who really need to start thinking about this in new ways.

Hari Sreenivasan: All right, Kate Marvel, the podcast is Anthropocinema; and scientist at Columbia University. Thanks so much.

Kate Marvel: Thank you very much.

哈里·斯瑞尼瓦桑：奥斯卡盛年今晚即将开幕，科学家们有什么主题可以分析呢？如果您觉得是气候变化的话，那您可能会想听听今天的客座嘉宾凯特·马弗尔的看法，她是哥伦比亚大学的助理研究员，也是一个标新立异的播客频道的主持人之一，而该播客频道正是将影视和气候科学联系在一起的一个频道。

凯特·马弗尔：我们发现，人们虽然喜欢科学，但他们真正喜欢的是有误导性的电影。如果能将科学和有误导性的电影结合，就会有丰硕的成果。

哈里·斯瑞尼瓦桑：好莱坞是不是有什么误解？尤其是与科学有关的电影。

凯特·马弗尔：我是气候科学家，目前，我们看了大概3部与气候科学有关的电影，即《后天》、《鲨卷风》和《全球风暴》。这几部都是灾难电影了。有太多灾难在持续发生。但在现实世界中，气候变化正在发生，而且此时此刻就在我们身边发生，但气候变化并非人们关心的唯一一件事。旧金山可以说是地球上空气质量最差的城市。我认为，大家正在逐渐意识到气候变化可以改变我们的生活，而其改变生活的方式可能是我们始料未及的。

哈里·斯瑞尼瓦桑：所以在电影的背景中，空气质量可能是一个影响因素，导致人类只剩下一天可呼吸的空气。

凯特·马弗尔：确实如此，而且我不想说气候变化会引发科学家口中所说的一些极端灾难，比如更加恐怖的热浪、洪灾、干旱。但气候变化肯定不是唯一一个主题，不是吗？大家关心的是饭桌上是否能有食物。大家关心的是经济公正、种族公正和教育。大家关心的是社会的组织方式。但这些都会受到一个事实的影响：我们所生活的这个地球正在发生本质变化。

哈里·斯瑞尼瓦桑：您的忧虑是好莱坞有绝对的权力可以决定叙述式影片的框架，虽然是有趣的电影，但会有些上纲上线。

凯特·马弗尔：是的，而且我认为设定一个这样的标准是很危险的，即非要等到事态危及到整个星球的生命时才去关心。因为我认为标准应该更严格，你懂我意思吗？不应该是早上起床之后觉得今天还不会灭绝，就能随便过一天。我认为我们应该有更高的期望。

哈里·斯瑞尼瓦桑：好莱坞是否有什么影片或者例子展示的是正确的角度呢？

凯特·马弗尔：我很喜欢《疯狂的麦克斯4：狂暴之路》。

哈里·斯瑞尼瓦桑：这部电影相当黑暗！

凯特·马弗尔：我觉得这是一部很好的娱乐片，但我觉得这部影片的意义在于它展现了未来疯狂的社会，那是没有人曾经历过的景象。气候变化引发了沙漠的危机，但气候变化其实早有迹象可寻。电影讲述的故事是最后爆发的时刻，但也是关于未来社会的荒诞离奇。

哈里·斯瑞尼瓦桑：这些不同的叙述式影片是否会流入教室，并改变年轻人对气候科学的理解呢？

凯特·马弗尔：我觉得会，而且实际上，我认为年轻人比我们还要超前，年轻人会认为这就是他们生活成长的世界，他们对于稳定的气候有着浓烈的兴趣。所以我认为年轻人已经得到一些这方面的讯息了。我觉得反倒是我们需要用新的方式思考。

哈里·斯瑞尼瓦桑：好的，谢谢凯特·马弗尔，她的播客叫Anthropocinema，她是哥伦比亚大学的科学家。谢谢大家。

凯特·马弗尔：非常感谢。