PBS高端访谈:香农·米勒谈如何保护体操运动员免受虐待（在线收听）

Judy Woodruff: After days of powerful testimony, former gymnastics doctor Larry Nassar was sentenced to life in prison yesterday. But, as the hearing ended, the judge and a number of women who testified said it is crucial now to focus on what needs to change moving forward. We're going to focus on that tonight with a renowned gymnast, Shannon Miller. She won more Olympic medals than any other U.S. gymnast, and led the team that was dubbed the Magnificent Seven to gold during the 1996 Olympics. Miller wasn't assaulted by Nassar. But she is a leading voice working to reform the sport. I spoke with her earlier today, and we started with her reaction to the testimonies she heard during the sentencing hearing.

Shannon Miller: I think I have just been in a state of shock and sadness, outrage. And to listen to the victim-impact statements, as a mother, as an athlete, as a woman, it is — it is absolutely heartbreaking. And I take those voices with me each day as I continue to relentlessly focus on agenda-based change. Change has to happen.

Judy Woodruff: You have been talking and writing about that. Before we talk about changing the system, though, I want to ask you if you think others besides Larry Nassar should be held accountable, the U.S. Olympic Committee, Michigan State, other institutions?

Shannon Miller: I think there is a lot of accountability to go around. That is for sure. I think this is something that happened by one man, but I think oftentimes it's not allowing the voices to be heard, creating an atmosphere where athletes can not speak up, or, if they do, they are not heard. Things are not followed through on. So, I there's a great amount of accountability that needs to take place. And I think certainly within USA Gymnastics one of the things that is of utmost importance is not just the new CEO that has come in and the change in leadership, but really a change throughout the organization from the board of directors to certain personnel. I think there is a lot of people in the gymnastics community — in fact, I would say a majority of the gymnastics community, they want to see change. They want to do better. And it starts with holding people accountable.

Judy Woodruff: Well, last night, we interviewed sports training specialist Robert Andrews from Houston. And I'm quoting here. He said- "There are quite a few gyms out there with horribly abusive coaches running the show." And he said, on the women's side, "There is a tremendous amount of psychological abuse, shaming, humiliation." Is that the system that needs fixing?

Shannon Miller: It's incredibly difficult to watch this unfold, because this is not the gymnastics I knew. This is not the gymnastics experience that I faced. I had my personal coaches. I lived at home. I went to public school. I trained. And I got to go out and represent my city and my state and my country. That is the gymnastics I know and I love. It's about flipping and tumbling. It is not about whether or not your child is safe on any level when they go into the gym, other than maybe an injury or two. And we have to have comprehensive abuse-prevention education. It needs to be mandatory for every member of USA Gymnastics. And it needs available for all children, all athletes, parents, coaches, administration. It can be age-appropriate and that's great, but it covers all types of abuse, including bullying and body shaming and cyber-bullying. These are all issues that athletes face. And so we have to make sure that they are protected and that they are also armed with that knowledge and education, so they know when they can speak up.

Judy Woodruff: So how confident are you that that reeducation can take place, when this other system has been in place for so long?

Shannon Miller: You know, the interesting thing is, I am more confident than ever that change can take place. And sometimes you have to burn the field to plant anew. And that's the thing that we're focused on here. These victims — not victims, survivors, that have been through this ordeal, and they have had the courage to speak up and speak out. So let's use that. And, again, I think there are so many — there are so many gyms across the country, there are so many athletes, there are parents, there are people that want to see that change. And they want to help with that change. They want this to be a safer and more empowering sport. So if we unite and we get together, we can power through the difficult conversations and the processes and the best practices. All of those things can happen. They are out there. A lot of the things I talk about are common sense. You don't have a trainer in the same room with a female athlete alone. So there is hundreds, if not thousands of these small things that are absolute commonsense that you can put into place. And I think now is the time for change. And it's already begun. I would like it to go faster, and that's why I am continuing to push and push hard moving forward.

Judy Woodruff: You mentioned the parents. There have to be parents out there watching all of this, wondering if they should let their children, especially their daughters, go into gymnastics, given what is going on. How do you give them confidence? What is the parents' role here?

Shannon Miller: Yes, I think the parents' role — and I'm a parent of two small children, who both will go into the gym this Saturday. But I think it is our role to worry, and to be a part of it, and to be concerned and to be educated. But it's hard. And I think it's important that there is an understanding that it's not just about one person or one segment. It's about making sure that the coaches are educated and the athletes as well, the parents as well. But we all know, as parents, we cannot be with our children 24/7, whether it's at school or any other sport or gymnastics or a field trip. We cannot be in control of them 24/7, as much as we would like. So we have to make sure that we are creating places that are as safe as possible. And I think part of that is making sure that this education is mandatory and that there are very specific guide lines that these gyms, if you want to be a USA Gymnastics member club, then there are very strict guidelines on what you have to follow in order to have that designation.

Judy Woodruff: Shannon Miller, we thank you so much for talking with us.

Shannon Miller: Thank you.

朱迪·伍德瑞夫：经过几天的听证，由于证据确凿，前体操医生拉里·纳塞尔昨天被判终身监禁。但听证会结束后，法官和一些参与作证的妇女说，现在我们必须把重点放在改变局面上。今晚我们将和著名体操运动员香农·米勒一起关注其中动态。作为获得奥运奖牌最多的美国体操运动员，她曾带领队伍“豪勇七姣龙”参加1996年亚特兰大奥运会，勇夺金牌。纳塞尔并没有侵犯米勒。但她倡导实行体操改革。今天的早些时候，我和她聊过，她在量刑听证会上听到了证词，让我们先来听听她的反应。

香农·米勒：我很震惊，很悲伤，也很愤怒。听了受害者的陈述，作为一位母亲，一名运动员，一个女人，这一切令我心碎不已。这些声音每天萦绕在我的耳畔，我将一如既往，坚持不懈地关注后续变革，这些变革应按部就班，而且势在必行。

朱迪·伍德瑞夫：那些事请，你一直都在谈在写。在谈体系改革前，我想问你是否认为除了拉里·纳塞尔之外，其他人也应该承担责任，比如美国奥林匹克委员会，密歇根州以及其他机构？

香农·米勒：我认为可以追责的地方有很多。这点毫无疑问。我认为现在只是揪出来了一个人，但我认为人们往往都被剥夺了话语权，造就了一种运动员不能说话的氛围，或者，如果他们说了，也不会有人听。事情根本没法进行下去。所以，很多人应该承担起责任来。我认为，在美国体操中，最重要的事情绝不仅是去关心新CEO的走马上任或领导层有什么变化，而是关心整个队伍从董事会到具体某个队员的彻底性改变。我认为体操界有很多人——事实上，我想说体操界的大多数人，他们想看到变化。他们想做得更好。而这就要从追责开始。

朱迪·伍德瑞夫：昨晚，我们采访了来自休斯敦的体育训练专家罗伯特·安德鲁斯。这里我引用他的话，他说：“很多健身房教练辱骂现象严重。”他说，对于女性，“他们会实施大量的心理虐待，羞辱，侮辱。”这样的系统是不是需要调整改善？

香农·米勒：这些揭露出来的丑闻实在让人难以面对，因为这不是我印象中的体操运动。这与我的体操经验不符。那时我有自己的私人教练。我住在家里。我上的是公立学校。我进行训练。我出去代表我的城市，我的州和我的国家参加比赛。这就是我所了解和我所热爱的体操运动。体操涉及的是旋转和翻滚动作。而不会涉及孩子进入健身房运动时不同程度的安全隐患，当然除了也许会有一两次的受伤。我们必须进行全面的预防虐待教育。这是美国每个体操界人士必须遵守的规定。它应适用于所有的孩子，所有的运动员，家长、教练及管理机构。这种教育可分年龄进行，如果能做到这一点，那就太棒了，它要涵盖各种类型的虐待，包括霸凌、身体羞辱和网络霸凌。这些都是运动员们所面临的问题。因此，我们必须确保他们得到了（相应）保护，而且他们也拥有这种知识，接受了这种教育，所以他们知道什么时候可以发声。

朱迪·伍德瑞夫：那么，既然这个（错误）体系已经存在了这么久，对于这种再教育，你有多少信心呢？

香农·米勒：你知道，有趣的是，对于这种变革，我比以往任何时候都更有信心。有时你不得不将土地付之一炬，然后重新播种。这就是我们目前所关注的事情。这些受害者——不是受害者而是幸存者，他们经历了这场磨难，他们有勇气说出真相，而且大声说出来。让我们就用这个。再说一次，我想有那么多——全国有这么多健身房，有这么多运动员，有家长，有人希望看到这种变革的来临。他们想助变革一臂之力。他们希望体操能成为一种更安全、自主权更多的运动。因此，如果我们团结起来，我们就能从艰难的对话、复杂的过程和最佳的实践中汲取力量。所有这些事情都有可能发生。他们就在那里。我谈论的很多事情其实都是常识。女运动员不与教练独处。因此，这些小细节即便没有上千也有上百，是绝对的常识，你可以照着执行。我认为变革的时候到了。而且已经开始了。我希望它走得更快，这就是我一直砥砺奋进的原因。

朱迪·伍德瑞夫：你提到了家长。家长必须全程观看，他们想知道，根据发生的情况，是否该让他们的孩子，尤其是他们的女儿，进入体操界。你如何给他们点信心？家长在其中扮演着什么角色？

香农·米勒：是的，我想家长的角色，我也是两个小孩的家长，他们两个，这周六也要去健身房。但我认为我们可能会担心，并让自己参与其中，去担心，接受教育。但是很难。我认为这很重要，我们应该认识到，这一切不仅关乎个人，不仅限于某一阶段。我们应该确保教练员、运动员以及他们的家长都接受到了教育。但我们都知道，作为父母，我们和我们的孩子们总有分离，无论这种分离发生在学校，还是发生在任何其他运动馆或健身房，抑或发生在外出实地考察期间。对孩子，我们无法实现我们所希望那样的无缝监管。所以我们必须确保，把他们带到尽可能安全的地方。我认为其中的一部分是确保这种教育的强制性，并且制定十分具体的指导方针，让这些健身房遵从。如果这些健身房想成为美国体操协会会员，那么我们有非常严格的指导方针，你必须遵循，才能加入进来。

朱迪·伍德瑞夫：香农·米勒，非常感谢你的参与。

香农·米勒：谢谢！