PBS高端访谈:了解一下电影《寡妇特工》（在线收听）

JUDY WOODRUFF: Now: An acclaimed director puts his own mark on a much-loved film genre. Jeffrey Brown continues his fall film series from the Toronto International Film Festival.

ACTOR: You have no idea what, do you? Or did you choose not to know?

JEFFREY BROWN: On its face, Widows is a heist movie, a stylish thriller with star power, and plenty of explosions, dead bodies, and plot twists. But the day after its debut at the Toronto Film Festival in September, director Steve McQueen told me he also wanted something more.

STEVE MCQUEEN, Director: I want to sort of stimulate in people's minds the things which are around them. Again, it is a roller-coaster ride, and a thrilling one, through our current social, economic environment.

JEFFREY BROWN: McQueen was born and raised in London, the son of working-class immigrants. He made his name first as an artist, his work in video and other media exhibited in prominent galleries, a winner of the U.K.'s prestigious Turner Prize in 1999. His first three feature films were all tough-minded and harrowing, taking on subjects seldom tackled in commercial cinema, Hunger in 2008 about the 1981 hunger strike by Irish nationalist Bobby Sands, 2011's Shame, a drama about sex addiction, again starring Michael Fassbender, and then the breakthrough of 12 Years a slave in 2013, which won an Oscar for best picture, and a directing nomination for McQueen. With that history, some critics wonder why McQueen would now turn to the well-trod heist genre.

STEVE MCQUEEN: I don't know what the surprise is, because I'm a storyteller, and I want to go where I feel the best stories are, so that could be anywhere.

JEFFREY BROWN: It's a genre we're kind of used to. It has its own particular tropes, whereas and I have seen your earlier films. I think they're exploring something that in many ways we haven't seen before.

STEVE MCQUEEN: I think we're seeing things we haven't seen before in this picture. The convention always has to be broken, because, otherwise, we see the same film all the time. I mean, that's Hollywood, really, but that's not how I wanted to sort of handle this particular understanding of a heist picture.

JEFFREY BROWN: Indeed, this is a heist film with a twist, many of them. McQueen adapted it from a 1980s British TV series of the same name, in which the widows of men in a gang of thieves attempt to carry on after their husbands are killed. McQueen watched it as a boy, and a seed was planted.

STEVE MCQUEEN: I just related to the protagonists, these women who were deemed not to be capable and being judged by their appearance, similar to how I was being looked upon as a 13-year-old black child in London at the time.

VIOLA DAVIS, Actress: Our husbands aren't coming back.

JEFFREY BROWN: His film transplants and updates the action to present-day Chicago.

COLIN FARRELL, Actor: What I learned from your late husband and my father is that you reap what you sow.

VIOLA DAVIS: Let's hope so.

JEFFREY BROWN: It has an all-star and diverse cast, led by Viola Davis as Veronica, forced to take on a dangerous scheme after the violent death of her husband, played by Liam Neeson.

VIOLA DAVIS: My husband left me the plans for his next job. All I need is a crew to pull it off.

ACTRESS: Why should we trust you anyway?

VIOLA DAVIS: Because I'm the only one standing between you and a bullet in your head.

JEFFREY BROWN: Embedded in the story, as in contemporary life, issues of race, class, political corruption and, of course, gender, with the women as fully formed, complex characters in the lead.

MICHELLE RODRIGUEZ, Actress: If this whole thing goes wrong, I want my kids to know that I didn't just sit there and take it.

VIOLA DAVIS: The best thing we have going for us is being who we are.

ACTRESS: Why?

VIOLA DAVIS: Because no one thinks we have the balls to pull this off.

JEFFREY BROWN: McQueen enlisted writer Gillian Flynn, the Chicago-based bestselling author of Gone Girl and other thrillers, as his co-writer.

GILLIAN FLYNN, Writer: What's cool about a heist film is the teamwork, is the men figuring each other out, the men figuring each other's skill sets out. And, to me, that's always such a male thing. You know, it's, how do men work? How do men make teams? How do men drive jobs? I mean, and that's always what male society is about. So to get to see women do that, I think, is a very cool and very unique sort of thing. To me, it feels very groundbreaking because it feels very real.

JEFFREY BROWN: I heard you speaking on the stage before the premiere, and you were talking about the need to make films that look more like the real world, where the people look more like real people in the world.

STEVE MCQUEEN: I was thinking about the people who go to the movies, the people in the audience, wanting to be reflected onto the screen. That's all. That screen has to be a mirror reflecting back on the reality of its surroundings. That's all. Pretty simple.

JEFFREY BROWN: And that is not the case?

STEVE MCQUEEN: Often, that is not. I mean, that's why people make a big deal about the whole idea of diversity, as if they don't look out their window. I mean, it's our reality.

JEFFREY BROWN: Do you see things changing in film, in the culture?

STEVE MCQUEEN: Slowly, slowly. It used to be that every sort of film or every other film, you know, the main protagonist, his best friend used to be black, and he used to sort of or she used to sort of disappear fairly quickly, within the first 20 or 15 minutes. So let's hope we get a fair and proper reflection of our reality. And if you want to keep cinema alive, one has to sort of cater to the people who pay to go and see it.

JEFFREY BROWN: Steve McQueen's Widows opens today, nationwide. For the PBS NewsHour, I'm Jeffrey Brown at the Toronto International Film Festival.

朱迪·伍德拉夫：今天的主角是一位备受喜爱的导演，他执导了一部他自己很喜欢的电影题材。下面请听我台记者杰弗里·布朗从多伦多国际电影节发回的秋季电影系列报道。

男演员：你根本不知道情况，还是你装傻？

杰弗里·布朗：表面上，《寡妇特工》是一部盗贼电影，是特色鲜明的惊悚片，里面充斥着明星魅力、各种爆炸案、死尸和情节的跌宕起伏。但这部影片于9月在多伦多国际电影节首映后的第二天，导演史提夫·麦昆跟我说，他想展现的东西不止于此。

史提夫·麦昆，导演：我想刺激观众脑海中的一些事情，一些跟他们周围有关的事情。当然，这部影片依然很刺激、很惊悚，这一点可以体现在影片对当前社会环境和经济环境的描绘。

杰弗里·布朗：麦昆在伦敦出生长大，他的父母是工薪阶级移民过来的。他首次为人所知是以艺术家的身份，当时他做的视频等媒体文件在一些知名美术馆展出，让他一举获得1999年英国知名的透纳奖。他的前三部故事片与人性的坚强和痛苦有关，而这样的主题是商业片里鲜少出现的。比如，2008年的《饥饿宣言》讲的是1981年爱尔兰民族主义者鲍比·山兹绝食抗议的故事。2011年的《羞耻》是一部有关性瘾的影片，主演依然是麦克·法斯宾达。随后，他在2013年实现了巨大突破——拍摄了《为奴十二年》。此片获得了奥斯卡最佳影片。他本人也获得了最佳导演的提名。有了这样的辉煌过往，一些评论家就很奇怪为何麦昆会转而拍摄已经烂大街的盗窃题材。

史提夫·麦昆：我不知道怎样让观众感到惊喜，因为我只是一个讲故事的人而已。我只想寻找最好的故事，而最好的故事可以在任何地方出现。

杰弗里·布朗：这个题材是我们都很熟悉的——它有自己的比喻方式，我本人也看过您执导的电影。我认为您的电影是探索的很多角度是我们之前未曾见过的。

史提夫·麦昆：我认为，这部电影里也有之前未曾见过的角度。传统就是用来打破的，否则我们看到的所有电影将会是千篇一律的。我认为，这就是好莱坞的本质，不过这并非我想展现盗窃题材影片的独特角度。

杰弗里·布朗：正是如此，这是一部情节跌宕起伏的盗窃题材电影。麦昆取材自上世纪80年代的一个英国同名电视剧，并加以改变。在那部电视剧中，一个盗贼团伙死后，他们的妻子决定继续做丈夫的事业。麦昆还是小孩子的时候就看了这个电视剧，那时候，他心里就埋下了一颗种子。

史提夫·麦昆：我能理解主人公的心情——她们生而为女人，总是被人认为没有能力，自己的长相还要被人品头论足。这种心情我13岁在伦敦的时候经历过，那时候我被视作低人一等，因为我是黑人。

维奥拉·戴维斯，女演员：我们的丈夫不会回来了。

杰弗里·布朗：麦昆将这部影片的背景设在了芝加哥。

科林·法雷尔，男演员：我从你已故的丈夫和我自己父亲的身上学到了一件事——善恶有报。

维奥拉·戴维斯：希望如此吧。

杰弗里·布朗：这部影片可谓全明星阵容，由维奥拉·戴维斯领衔主演维罗妮卡。她的人设是要在丈夫惨死后完成一项危险的计划。她的丈夫由连恩·尼逊饰演。

维奥拉·戴维斯：我父亲给我留下了他下一项任务的计划。我现在万事俱备，只差伙伴。

女演员：但我们凭什么相信你呢？

维奥拉·戴维斯：因为我是唯一一个可以保护你们的人。

杰弗里·布朗：影片中交融了当代生活中的诸多问题，比如种族问题、阶级问题、政治腐败。当然了，也有性别歧视——女性成了成熟的复杂体，指引着故事的走向。

米歇尔·罗德里格兹，女演员：如果整件事都是错的，那我希望我的孩子们可以知道——我并没有坐以待毙。

维奥拉·戴维斯：我们目前唯一能做的就是做自己。

女演员：何出此言？维奥拉·戴维斯：因为这个社会认为女人做不到

杰弗里·布朗：麦昆还听取了作家吉莉安·弗林的意见，并将他列为合著者。后者是常驻芝加哥的畅销作家，著有《消失的爱人》等惊悚小说。

吉莉安·弗林，作家：盗窃题材的电影让人激动的地方就是团队合作，是患难与共，是成人之美。在我看来，男人就是要这样。这可以体现在男人工作的方式、组建团队的方式、完成工作的方式上。这就是男人们一直以来的样子。所以，我觉得能看到女性做这件事会很有意思，也很别出心裁。我觉得这部影片是开创性的，让我感到很真实。

杰弗里·布朗：在首映礼之前，我听到您上台的发言了。您谈到影视界需要制作更贴近于现实世界的电影，影片中的人物也应该更贴近于现实世界。

史提夫·麦昆：我想到了去电影院的观众，他们一定期待有共鸣的东西。就是这样。影片要像一面镜子，要能折射出观众生活的现实世界。就是这样，很简单的道理。

杰弗里·布朗：那实情不是这样吗？

史提夫·麦昆：通常不是的。正因如此，大家才营造了对多样性重视的氛围，就好像他们不会望向窗外一样。这才是现实世界。

杰弗里·布朗：您觉得影片、我们的文化里，有什么东西在变化吗？

史提夫·麦昆：有，但变化的进程很慢。以前的影片总是主人公和他/她最好的朋友都是黑人，而在影片的前15-20分钟里，他们都会以很快的速度消失。我们希望这部影片能正确地反映现实。要是想票房大卖，就得满足观众的胃口，让观众愿意花钱去电影院看。

杰弗里·布朗：史提夫·麦昆的《寡妇特工》今天在全国上映。以上是杰弗里·布朗从伦敦国际电影节发回的《新闻一小时》报道。