PBS高端访谈:尼加拉瓜民众抗议政府（在线收听）

Hari Sreenivasan: Many of the migrants crossing the southern border with the United States are fleeing violence in their home countries in Central America, most often Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador. But there is another crisis in the region, this time in Nicaragua, where Daniel Ortega's government's proposed cuts to pensions and social security in April triggered violent protests. Peace talks started, but in the past few weeks, government-backed forces began attacking groups demanding Ortega's resignation. Joining us now from Mexico City is Elisabeth Marlin, a reporter for The New York Times, who covers Central America. She is just back from Nicaragua, where she witnessed a battle in the town of Masaya earlier this week. Thanks for joining us.

Elisabeth Marlin: First of all, what are the core issues that people are fighting over or pushing back against? Well, Daniel Ortega won election 11 years ago. And when did he that, he began to take over control of all the branches of government. So basically, Daniel Ortega has control over the supreme court, the legislature, the electoral tribunal, and people really feel that this is turning into a one-party state. You have to you know, be loyal to the government in order to get basic benefits. You have to join the party in order to get any access to government jobs. And you know the proximate cause was the cuts to social security and so what began as peaceful protest suddenly this changed when the government fired on people. And social media had an enormous effect because what you had were pictures of elderly people being beaten up by crowds loyal to Daniel Ortega. And this spread rapidly through social media. And that created outrage and turned into this large opposition that has shown no signs of folding. And they want Daniel Ortega out. They want him out now. And they won't take anything less.

Hari Srinivasan: What's the status of any peace talks or any mediating forces here?

Elisabeth Marlin: There's a broad alliance called the Aliana Civica and it really includes groups that normally would never talk to each other. What it doesn't include is politicians, which perhaps is a good thing. But it includes the business community, student groups who have been very important in there, farmers groups. There are feminist groups. The mediators are the church, which is highly respected in Nicaragua. And Daniel Ortega himself asked for the church to mediate. But at the same type, the church has been instrumental in trying to stop the violence. So, these talks have been really going on since the end of April. And what the coalition of opposition organization would like is you know a discussion on early elections, on human rights, on some kind of trial, justice for what is now over 200 deaths, and reforms that will allow some kind of return to democracy where this one-party, one-man rule is dismantled.

Hari Srinivasan: All right, Elisabeth Marlin of The New York Times joining us by phone from Mexico City. Thanks so much.

Elisabeth Marlin: Thank you very much for having me.

哈里·斯雷尼瓦桑：中美洲多国发生暴力活动，许多国民正跨越美国南部边境逃往美国，他们中的很多都来自洪都拉斯、瓜地马拉和萨尔瓦多。但该地区还上演着另外一场危机，这次是在尼加拉瓜，丹尼尔·奥尔特加政府四月提出要削减养老金和社保，此举引发了暴力抗议。和谈开始了，但在过去的几周里，政府支持的军队开始攻击要求奥尔特加辞职的人群。《纽约时报》记者伊丽莎白·马林，现从墨西哥城加入我们，为我们报道中美洲地区事态。她刚从尼加拉瓜返回，并在本周早些时候目睹了马萨亚镇的一场战斗。感谢你的加入。

伊丽莎白·马林：首先，人们争斗或者对抗的核心问题是什么？嗯，11年前丹尼尔·奥尔特加赢得了选举。从那时起，他开始接管政府所有的部门。所以，基本上，丹尼尔·奥尔特加已经控制了最高法院、立法机关和选举法庭，人们真的觉得这里变成了一个一党制国家。为了获得基本利益，你必须忠于政府。你必须入党，才能获得为政府工作的机会。而最直接的原因是削减了社保，于是当政府向人民开枪时，和平抗议突然发生了变化。社交媒体产生了巨大的影响，因为在照片中，你看到了一些老年人被忠于丹尼尔·奥尔特加的人殴打。此事通过社交媒体迅速传播开来。这激怒了民众，演变成了一场大规模的反对活动，且没有任何收手的迹象。他们想让丹尼尔·奥尔特加下台。现在马上下台。没有商量余地。

哈里·斯雷尼瓦桑：这里有哪些和平谈话力量或者调解力量存在？

有一个广泛的联盟叫做“公民联盟”，它真的将通常不会互相交谈的团体囊括了进来。但这个联盟里没有政治家，这也许是件好事。但它包括商业团体和学生团体，他们在该地区的地位一直非常重要，还有农民团体。还有女权团体，调解力量则是教会，教会在尼加拉瓜受到高度尊重。丹尼尔·奥尔特加自己也请求教会调解。但在同种情况下，教会一直在试图阻止暴力方面起着作用。因此，自四月底以来，这些谈判一直在持续。反对党联盟想要讨论的是关于早期选举、人权、审判，以及对那超过200人死亡事件的法律制裁问题，还有废除独裁统治，要求民主回归的改革问题。

哈里·斯雷尼瓦桑：好的，《纽约时报》的伊丽莎白·马林从墨西哥城加入我们。非常感谢。

伊丽莎白·马林：非常感谢。