PBS高端访谈:我们需要完善美国保释制度（在线收听）

JUDY WOODRUFF: Tonight, we turn to another installment of our weekly Brief But Spectacular series, where we ask people about their passions. Tonight, we hear from attorney Robin Steinberg. She's CEO of The Bail Project. It's a national organization whose mission is to combat mass incarceration by paying bail for tens of thousands of low-income Americans at risk of pre-trial detention.

ROBIN STEINBERG, CEO, The Bail Project: So, when I became a public defender, I had no idea how bail system operated. And it doesn't take long when you're a public defender to stand in a courtroom next to a client, watch a judge set bail, and have the client turn to you and say, I don't have that money. And, inevitably, what happens is, the client will turn to you and say: I will just plead guilty. They will let me go home. And you want to scream. And you think yourself, nobody should go to a jail cell because they don't have any money. But that's what happens every day. So, jail is terrifying, and it's violent, and it's dehumanizing. It can do everything from destroy your mental health to your physical health. You can be sexually victimized. You can be one of the many jail deaths that happen in the first week of jail. You can lose your home. You can lose custody of your children. You can be deported. There's a whole cascade of problems that can happen and destruction that happens to you and your family and to your community, even if you're there for one day, two days or three days in jail. It's a horrifying place to be. So The Bail Project is an unprecedented effort to disrupt the money bail system. The idea is to create a central bail fund that we will then use to open sites in at least 40 places in America where we can begin to use philanthropic dollars to pay people's bail who don't have enough money to get out of those jail cells. Remember, these are people that have not been convicted of anything. These are people that are simply charged with something. By using philanthropic dollars, we actually pay somebody's bail. And, at the end of a criminal case, because bail money comes back, it will revolve back into the fund. Bail was actually created to be a form of release. It wasn't intended to hold people in jail cells. And it wasn't intended to create a two-tiered system of justice, one for the rich and one for everybody else. But that is exactly what it's done; 75 percent of people in American local jails are there because they cannot pay bail. These people haven't been convicted of a thing. Until we grapple with what the reality is on how our country has been addicted to imprisonment for as long as it has existed and since slavery to mass incarceration have happened, we're never gonna get at the root of the problem, that the root of the problem there is structural racism. And at the root of the problem, there's income inequality. And those are big issues we need to deal with. We also need to really ask ourselves, do we believe in the presumption of innocence, or don't we? If we believe in the presumption of innocence, then, when somebody is arrested, that presumption should wrap around them. And we don't believe in it, let's grapple with that. But if we believe in it, nobody should be sitting in jail cells who haven't been convicted of anything. My name is Robin Steinberg. And this is my Brief But Spectacular take on disrupting the money bail system and turning the tide on mass incarceration in America.

JUDY WOODRUFF: And you can find additional Brief But Spectacular episodes on our Web site. That's PBS.org/NewsHour/Brief.

朱迪·伍德拉夫：今晚，我们又迎来了周更节目《简短而精彩》，这是一档了解大家激情与梦想的节目。今晚，我们将走近律师罗宾·斯坦伯格，她是保释金项目的首席执行官。这是一个国家级组织，其使命是打击大规模监禁，方式是为可能无数面临审前羁押的低收入美国人提供保释金。

罗宾·斯坦伯格，首席执行官，保释金项目：我成为大家的捍卫者时，我还不知道保释系统是如何运作的。只要你是公众权益的捍卫者，你就免不了要在法庭上站在委托人身边，要看着法官定保释金额，然后看着委托人转过身来对你说：我交不起这个钱。不可避免会发生的是：委托人会转向你说，我还是认罪吧。委托人会让我回家。而此时的你只会想嚎叫。你会这样想：因为没钱就进监狱是不对的。但这种事情每天都在发生。而监狱很可怕，充满暴力，是反人性的存在。监狱会破坏人的身体健康和心理健康。你会成为性行为的受害者。进去第一周里，可能就丢掉了小命。可能无家可归，可能失去孩子的监护权，可能被驱逐出境。这一系列问题都会发生，你和你的家人、社群都会遭受打击，即便只是在牢里待上一天、两天或者三天。监狱太可怕了。所以保释项目是前所未有的行动，可以扰乱用钱保释的系统。我们的想法是创建中央保释金，然后通过它来在美国至少40个地方开放平台。在平台上，我们可以通过慈善金来为付不起的人承担保释金，让他们不必坐牢。请记住，这些人都是未曾犯罪的人。这些人只是被控告了而已。我们其实是用慈善金支付了人们的保释金。而结案的时候，保释金会重新返回慈善金中。这个项目其实是放人的一种方式，不想把人困在牢狱之中。该项目也不是为了创建一个两级的司法系统，一级为富人，一级为穷人。不过，确实产生了了这样一个小锅。坐牢的人中，有75%的人是因为付不起保释金。但他们什么罪都没犯啊。我们且不纠结于我们的国家在发展的历史中为何会囚禁成瘾，我们从奴隶制变成了大规模监禁，却从来不深入到问题的源头，而问题的源头是结构性的种族主义。而结构性种族主义的原因是收入不平等。这些都是我们应该解决的大问题。我们还应该问问自己是否相信无罪推定，我们真的相信吗？如果我们相信无罪推定，那么当某人遭到了逮捕，那么无罪推定应该有效啊。而因为我们不相信无罪推定，所以会找理由定罪。而如果我们相信的话，没犯罪的人是不应该被关入狱的。我是罗宾·斯坦伯格。这就是我在本期《简短而精彩》中关于破坏用钱保释人系统的看法，以及消除美国大规模监禁的看法。

朱迪·伍德拉夫：如果想看更多《简短而精彩》的视频，可以登录我们的官网哦。官网就是PBS.org/NewsHour/Brief。