PBS高端访谈:时尚的穆斯林女性服饰（在线收听）

Judy Woodruff: Next: how faith, religion and modesty are influencing style for Muslim women. Jeffrey Brown reports on how modest fashion grew into a multibillion-dollar business and why it's now being celebrated in brand-new ways.

Jeffrey Brown: It's a fashion show in a museum, with an unusual focus. This is an exhibition of contemporary Muslim fashion, the first of its kind in the U.S., put together by the de Young Museum in San Francisco.

Jill D'Alessandro: It's an exciting time. It's the right time to be doing this.

Jeffrey Brown: Co-curator Jill D'Alessandro.

Jill D'Alessandro: So, I just wanted to raise awareness. I do think that there is a little bit of a notion in mainstream America or even in European cultures that there isn't a lot of creativity, or that Muslim women have restricted dress codes. And I think one of the things that we really wanted to celebrate is, where you can still dress within your tradition, but there's tons of creativity, and that there is a lot of personal style.

Jeffrey Brown: On display, some 80 ensembles by more than 50 designers, from glamorous gowns and couture fashion worn by Qatari royalty, to leisure and sportswear, including Nike's pro-hijab line worn by U.S. Olympic fencer Ibtihaj Muhammad. Most of the clothing is from the Middle East and Southeast Asia, with a sprinkling of American and European designers and an emphasis on youth.

Jill D'Alessandro: Half the designers in the exhibition are women between the ages of 20 and 30. And so there's these women who want to create a wardrobe that fits their lifestyles, and that's really exciting.

Jeffrey Brown: This is what's called modest fashion, concerned with covering much of the body, often, but not exclusively based on religious teachings and customs. The term hijab, often used to refer to head scarves worn by Muslim women, describes the act of covering up generally. But it quickly becomes clear here that modesty means different things in different places and to different people.

Saba Ali: A lot of us are kind of like, oh, I wish we could change up the name a little bit. I like to use the word discrete or just a little bit more mysterious, you know?

Jeffrey Brown: What's wrong with modest?

Saba Ali: Modesty, I don't know, I think sometimes people get this like boring image of like a grandmother, somebody in dowdy clothes. And that's not, you can see here that's not necessarily the case.

Jeffrey Brown: Saba Ali, American-born of Pakistani descent, was an adviser to the exhibition. A personal stylist by profession, she helped arrange the head scarves and other clothing on the mannequins. She also lent her own wedding dress, a beautiful ensemble she found in her parents' homeland.

Saba Ali: I feel like it's getting a lot more action here than it actually did at my wedding reception.

Jeffrey Brown: A lot more attention?

Saba Ali: A lot more attention. A lot more people are seeing it. It's being photographed so beautifully.

Jeffrey Brown: Now the mother of four, she says she grew up amid modest clothing, but made her own decision to start wearing a head scarf only when she was in college.

Saba Ali: Within the Muslim community, there are different levels of modesty that women adhere to. And it's really a woman's own choice. And I find that really ironic, because, when people see a covered woman, they just assume that it's so anti-feminist and somebody must have told her to do that.

Jeffrey Brown: That's the stereotype.

Saba Ali: That's the stereotype, and that's what we're trying to open up hearts and mind to here. You know, I'm not living in a country where maybe my head scarf is understood. So it's almost like a duty upon me to go out and kind of look my best.

Jeffrey Brown: There are countries and cultures where clothing restrictions are imposed. Think of Iran's morality police. And controversies continue. In 2016, for example, the burkini, combining the words for burka and bikini, was temporarily banned in some French towns. But millions of Muslim women around the world are making their own choices, as celebrated in this music video of Mona Haydar's "Wrap My Hijab."And the modest fashion industry has exploded, already estimated at more than several hundred billion dollars worldwide and growing fast. It's seen on magazine covers, in fashion shows around the globe, in the art world, and on social media, where fashion is often used to address social and political issues.

Lisa Vogl: Everybody has a different level of modesty.

Jeffrey Brown: It's also now breaking into mainstream fashion lines.

Lisa Vogl: I have even seen a lot of women that aren't Muslim wear them because they're just so stylish.

Jeffrey Brown: Lisa Vogl, a fashion photographer who converted to Islam in 2011, launched the Verona Collection four years later in Orlando, Florida. Earlier this year, it was picked up by Macy's, the first major U.S. department store to sell hijabs.

Lisa Vogl: When we launched Verona, there were modest clothing available and there was clothing available for hijabs, hijabis, but there wasn't necessarily hijab-friendly clothing with women that adhere to an American style sense.

Jeffrey Brown: In fact, the rise of modest fashion goes beyond any particular religion, according to Washington Post fashion critic Robin Givhan.

Robin Givhan: There's also the shift in just the way that women are thinking about and approaching fashion, particularly now in the realm of MeToo. Who decides what is sexy? Who decides what is powerful?

Jeffrey Brown: In the United States, with our divisive politics, which is so often around religion, some of it very focused on Islam and Muslims, is it possible to have this conversation, to see a fashion exhibition, without putting it in a political context?

Robin Givhan: Probably not, and I don't even know that you would want to take it outside the political context. I think you need that in order to really understand to some degree how provocative some of the pieces are.

Jeffrey Brown: The exhibition Contemporary Muslim Fashions closes later this week. It goes next to a museum in Frankfurt, Germany. For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Jeffrey Brown at the de Young Museum in San Francisco.

朱迪·伍德拉夫：接下来，我们来聊聊信仰、宗教和低调美对穆斯林女性的影响。杰弗里·布朗将为我们报道低调的时尚风格是如何演化成价值数十亿美元的生意，而人们为什么会以崭新的方式来庆祝这样的低调时尚。

杰弗里·布朗：这个博物馆里正在举行时尚展，但关注点却与众不同。这里展示了“当代的穆斯林时尚”，这是美国首次出现这类风格。而这都是旧金山笛洋美术馆的杰作。

吉尔·亚历山大：这是激动人心的时刻，恰逢其时。

杰弗里·布朗：吉尔·亚历山大是这次展览的策展人。

吉尔·亚历山大：我本人只是想提高大家的意识。我真心认为美国主流社会甚至是很多欧洲国家都会认为穆斯林没有创造性，或者认为穆斯林女性的着装风格十分有限。我觉得我们真正想要庆祝的一件事情是——穿着既符合传统，又有创造性，还带有个人风格。

杰弗里·布朗：在展的近80套服装是由50多位设计师打造的，其中既有令人流连忘返的长外衣，也有卡塔尔皇室风格的服装，还有休闲运动装，比如耐克希贾布系列风格的服装，这是奥运会击剑运动员伊布蒂哈吉·穆罕默德曾穿过的风格。大多数服装都出自自中东和东南亚设计师之手，也有美国和欧洲设计师的手笔。青少年主题的设计也是重点。

吉尔·亚历山大：参展的设计师中，有半数都20-30岁之间的女性。有这样一些女性，她们想创建适合自己生活方式的衣橱，这样的想法让人兴奋。

杰弗里·布朗：这就是所谓的低调时尚，该遮的都能遮到，但是设计不只是基于宗教教义和习俗。希贾布是个术语，通常用来指穆斯林女性所带的头巾，也可以用来指掩盖什么事物的行为。但在这个展会上，大家很快就明白：所谓的低调是因事因地因人而异的。

萨巴·阿里：我们很多人都会希望能稍微改一下名字。我喜欢用独立的或者更神秘的名字，你懂那种感觉吗？

杰弗里·布朗：低调这个词有什么不合适的地方吗？

萨巴·阿里：低调，怎么说呢，这个词有时候会让大家想到奶奶，或者是穿着邋遢的人。但这里却完全不是这么回事儿。

杰弗里·布朗：萨巴·阿里是美籍巴基斯坦人，他是这次展览的顾问。他的职业是形象顾问，她助力安排了模特穿戴的头巾等衣物。她还出借了自己的结婚礼服，那是她在父母家乡发现的一件非常漂亮的衣服。

萨巴·阿里：我感觉这件礼服在这里得到的反响比在我婚礼上的反响要大得多。

杰弗里·布朗：多很多吗？

萨巴·阿里：是的。很多人都来围观，拍了很多很好看的照片。

杰弗里·布朗：现在已经有4个孩子的她说她自己从小到大穿的都是很低调的衣服，但她大学的时候才下定决心戴头巾。

萨巴·阿里：穆斯林社群的女性都示范着不同程度的“低调”。这是女性自己的选择。我觉得这真的很讽刺，每次有人看到某个女性穿的严严实实，就会认为这是反对女权的表现，一定是有人告诉她要这样穿着。

杰弗里·布朗：这是老一套了。

萨巴·阿里：这是老一套，而我们希望能够通过这次展览打开大家的心扉，开拓大家的眼界。在我生活的国家，我戴头巾的行为是不被人理解的。这就像是我肩上的一种责任，我一定要穿得漂漂亮亮地出门。

杰弗里·布朗：有一些国家对衣服穿着有限制。比如伊朗就会设置道德警察来限制穿着。对于着装的争议还在继续。比如，2016年，泳装布基尼，即长袍和比基尼的混合体，在一些法国城镇被暂时禁止穿戴。但世界各地的上百万穆斯林女性正在做出自己的选择，比如莫娜·海达尔在音乐视频《戴上我的希贾布》中所庆祝的那样。而低调时尚业蓬勃发展了：据估测，其在全球范围内已达到几百亿美元的价值。这种时尚风在杂志封面、世界各地、艺术世界、社交媒体上都可以看到时尚成为人们解决社会问题和政治问题利器。

丽莎·福格尔：每个人的低调程度都不同。

杰弗里·布朗：现在，这种风格已经融入到主流时尚界之中。

丽莎·福格尔：我也见过很多不是穆斯林的女性也穿着这种风格的衣服，因为真的很时髦。

杰弗里·布朗：丽莎·福格尔是一位时尚摄影师。她2011年加入了伊斯兰。2015年，她在佛罗里达州的奥兰多创办了维罗那系列服装。今年年初，梅西百货开始出售这种风格的服装。梅西百货是美国最大的希贾布百货商店。

丽莎·福格尔：刚推出维罗那的时候，也有其他低调风格的衣服，也有其他风格的希贾布。对于习惯穿着美式风格服装的女性来说，不一定非要加入希贾布的元素。

杰弗里·布朗：实际上，低调时尚的崛起之快超乎任何一个宗教，这是《华盛顿邮报》的时尚评论家罗宾·吉维翰如是说道。

罗宾·吉维翰：女性对于时尚的态度也在发生转变，尤其是在#我也是运动的推动下。谁可以定义性感的含义呢？谁可以定义谁是强权呢？

杰弗里·布朗：：在美国存在各种政见，都是与宗教有关的，有的话题与伊斯兰和穆斯林有关。如果不放在政治环境下讨论，那么这个对话可能存在吗？这样的时装展可能存在吗？

罗宾·吉维翰：很可能不会存在，我甚至没想到您会提出将政治和这个话题分割开来的想法。我认为，从某种程度上来说，只有在这种对话存在的情况下，人们才能明白关于这件事的一些方面有多么的具有煽动性。

杰弗里·布朗：“当代的穆斯林时尚”将于本周晚些时候结束。下一站是德国法兰克福的一家博物馆。感谢收听杰弗里·布朗从旧金山笛洋美术馆发回的《新闻一小时》报道。