美国国家公共电台 NPR 特朗普与奥巴马因疫情隔空互怼 美总统大选硝烟再起（在线收听）

Former President Barack Obama leveled some of his sharpest public criticism towards President Trump this weekend. Obama was addressing graduates of historically black colleges and universities during a virtual commencement.

美国前总统巴拉克·奥巴马本周末对特朗普总统进行了最尖锐的公开批评。奥巴马在虚拟毕业典礼上向传统黑人学院和大学的毕业生发表讲话。

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

（录音档案）

BARACK OBAMA: This pandemic as fully, finally, torn back the curtain on the idea that so many of the folks in charge know what they're doing. A lot of them aren't even pretending to be in charge.

巴拉克·奥巴马：这场大流行已经完全彻底地撕开了一种假象，即当权者知道自己在干什么。但实际上他们中的很多人甚至连假装负责任都不愿意。

CHANG: President Trump was asked about these comments at the White House yesterday. He responded over the sound of a helicopter.

张：昨天，特朗普总统在白宫被问及这些评论。他在直升飞机的背景音中给出了回答。

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

（录音档案）

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Look; he was an incompetent president. That's all I can say — grossly incompetent.

唐纳德·特朗普：你看，他是个无能的总统。这就是我能说的——非常无能。

CHANG: But Trump has actually had a lot more to say about Obama in recent days and weeks as he's running for reelection against Obama's former No. 2, Joe Biden. To get the play-by-play on this escalating feud between Obama and Trump, we're joined now by NPR senior political editor Domenico Montanaro.

张：但实际上最近几天和几周，特朗普还有很多有关奥巴马的话要说，因为他现在正在与奥巴马的前副手乔·拜登竞选连任。为了了解奥巴马和特朗普之间不断升级的纷争的详细情况，我们将和NPR高级政治编辑多梅尼科·蒙塔纳罗连线。

Hey, Domenico.

你好，蒙塔纳罗。

DOMENICO MONTANARO, BYLINE: Hey, Ailsa.

多梅尼科·蒙塔纳罗连线：你好，阿尔萨。

CHANG: All right. Well, we just heard that back-and-forth between Obama and Trump over the coronavirus response. But, I mean, Trump has been on the attack against Obama for a few weeks now, right? Why go after him and not Joe Biden, the presumptive nominee?

张：好。我们刚刚听到了奥巴马和特朗普就冠状病毒应对进行的交锋。最近几周，特朗普一直在攻击奥巴马，对吧？为什么攻击他而不攻击假定提名人乔·拜登？

MONTANARO: Well, we are within six months of the general election, as hard as that is to believe with life hardly back to normal...

蒙塔纳罗：我们离大选还有六个月的时间，很难相信在冠状病毒的影响下人们的生活无法恢复正常。

CHANG: Yeah.

张：好。

MONTANARO: ...With coronavirus. As you pointed out, you know, it's Obama's vice president that's on the ballot. Plus, you have to realize, right now, Obama is one of the most popular political figures in the country, short of his wife. And he's going to be out on the campaign trail for Joe Biden. His favorability ratings routinely are about 55%, meaning independents like him. Trump really needs to try and muddy him up and make him the kind of polarizing, partisan lightning rod for conservatives that fire up his base — that he wasn't much of his eight years as president. And no one quite fires up his base like Obama does.

蒙塔纳罗：……冠状病毒。如你所指，奥巴马的副总统在选票上。另外，你必须意识到，目前奥巴马是美国最受欢迎的政治人物之一，仅次于他的妻子。他将为乔·拜登的竞选活动站台。他的支持率通常在55%左右，这里指的是他这样的独立人士。特朗普真的需要试图将他弄得一团糟，让他成为保守派两极分化且党派分明的避雷针，这会令他的选民愤怒——这在他八年的总统生涯中算不上什么。而没有人像奥巴马那样令他的选民愤怒。

CHANG: Well, Trump has also been talking about what he calls Obamagate.

张：特朗普也一直在谈论他称之为的“奥巴马门”。

MONTANARO: (Laughter).

蒙塔纳罗：（笑）。

CHANG: Explain what this is.

张：请解释一下这是什么。

MONTANARO: Well, I'm not totally sure. Can anyone really explain it? I don't know. But look; it's all part of a strategy here from Trump to make it something shady, something surreptitious. It all revolves around the Obama administration officials' role in the handling of surveillance that later led to the investigation and guilty plea, by the way, of Michael Flynn, Trump's first national security adviser. The Department of Justice now wants to drop that case against Flynn, and the president and his spokespeople have been making this case against the Obama administration. And they've have been asked, you know, what are the criminal charges here? And they haven't been able to really answer a specific charge. And today Attorney General William Barr said that he and the DOJ are not going to be pursuing criminal charges against Obama or Biden. And Trump has called on his ally, Senate Judiciary Chairman Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, to bring Obama before his committee. Graham warned Trump. He said, you know, in part, careful what you wish for, because Democrats could go after him.

蒙塔纳罗：我不太确定。有人能解释吗？我不知道。不过你看，这是特朗普让某事变得阴暗且诡秘的部分策略。这一切都围绕着奥巴马政府官员在处理监控方面发挥的作用，这种监控之后导致了对特朗普首位国家安全顾问迈克尔·弗林的调查以及弗林的认罪。美国司法部现在希望撤销对弗林的起诉，总统及其发言人一直想借此起诉奥巴马政府。他们被问到，这里涉及的刑事指控是什么？他们无法回答出具体指控。今天，司法部长威廉·巴尔表示，他和司法部不会寻求对奥巴马或拜登提起刑事诉讼。特朗普呼吁他的盟友、来自南卡罗来纳州的参议院司法主席林赛·格雷厄姆让奥巴马在他的委员会作证。格雷厄姆对特朗普提出了警告。他说，在某种程度上，要小心你的愿望，因为民主党人可能会攻击他。

CHANG: So do you expect this feud between Obama and Trump to keep going even though Trump is not running against Obama this year?

张：特朗普今年没有和奥巴马竞选，那你预计二人之间的恩怨还会持续下去吗？

MONTANARO: Yeah. I mean, you bet. I mean, it's only going to ramp up a — you know, once or — if there are in-person campaign events, I mean, Obama's going to do everything he can to get Biden elected and, frankly, not just out of loyalty to Biden. I think, you know, people shouldn't underestimate how much of a moral imperative many in the country see in beating Trump. It's also personal between Obama and Trump. Trump fanned the flames of the baseless conspiracy of Obama's birthplace. And look; that comment from Graham — be careful what you wish for — has a double meaning because Obama's a pretty good campaigner. And, you know, some Democrats are worried that Obama maybe — take more of the attention from Biden. But having Obama on their side is something that they think is well worth it.

蒙塔纳罗：好。没错。如果他们参加竞选活动，那这种争吵只会加剧，奥巴马会尽其所能让拜登当选，坦率地说，这不仅仅是出于对拜登的忠诚。我认为，人们不应该低估许多人在美国看到的击败特朗普的道德使命。这也是奥巴马和特朗普之间的私事。特朗普令有关奥巴马出生地这一毫无根据的阴谋更趋白热化。格雷厄姆的言论“小心你的愿望”有双重含义，因为奥巴马是非常优秀的竞选者。一些民主党人担心奥巴马可能会吸引走人们对拜登的注意力。但他们认为拥有奥巴马的支持是非常值得的。

CHANG: That is NPR's Domenico Montanaro.

张：以上是NPR新闻的多梅尼科·蒙塔纳罗带来的报道。

Thanks, Domenico.

谢谢你，多梅尼科。

MONTANARO: You're welcome.

蒙塔纳罗：不客气。