PBS高端访谈:参议院通过了一项历史性的环境法案（在线收听）

JUDY WOODRUFF: Today, the Senate overwhelmingly passed an act that provides funding for national parks and public lands. Our Lisa Desjardins joins me to tell us about this legislation and what else Congress is considering when it comes to the environment.

LISA DESJARDINS: That's right, Judy. This is actually an extraordinary bill, bipartisan bill, that's been years in the making, and passed now at this extraordinary time. Let me tell you a little bit about what's in it, first of all. This bill passed by the Senate still has to go through the House. But let's start with the top. This would fund deferred maintenance for our national parks and other federal lands, $9.5 billion over five years. That is -- those are needs that have been overlooked for a long time. This also would permanently fund something called the Land, Water and Conservation Fund. That is something we will talk about more in a minute, and it would fund that by using oil and gas revenues, offshore drilling, Judy. Let's go back to the $9.5 billion for our parks and federal lands. Judy, everyone knows that that is one of America's pride and joy, but the truth is, for decades, that those parks have been underfunded. Let's talk about our first national park, Yellowstone National Park, for example. In that park, they have not been able to take care of all their roads and trails. And, in addition, some of the staff there have not had housing. So, they actually haven't been able to hire the staff they want because there's nowhere for them to live. This is what the bill would provide. Judy, again, bipartisan, passed overwhelmingly in the Senate, and it has some strong hopes in the House as well.

JUDY WOODRUFF: And, Lisa, tell us why that is. What is it that gives it the support in the House?

LISA DESJARDINS: Well, I think there is some really important policy here as well. Let's talk about that Land, Water and Conservation Fund, for example. That fund is something that is used to add to federal land, including national parks. Say Yellowstone wants to grow. This fund has -- which was incorporated in 1965, has been part of the idea that America's public lands are important. However, Congress has barely funded it and used a patchwork of temporary funding year after year for it, so it hasn't been dependable. Now it has a permanent funding source. And it will be mandatory funding. Congress will not vote on this every year. And what that means is not just more land for national parks, but potentially more land in cities as well, urban areas. That's where a lot of these environmental activists also want to expand federal land. This is something that is a big issue, I think, for much of America, and that's why you see many Republicans, not all, but some, supporting it.

JUDY WOODRUFF: And, Lisa, prospects, you were telling us, look good in the House, but not unanimous. Tell us what the folks who object to it are saying.

LISA DESJARDINS: There are some objections, largely along the cost of this bill. While that expansion of the Conservation Fund is paid for by oil and gas revenues, the national park money, for example, is not. So this would add to the deficit. And some have concerns. Also, Judy, some opposition coming mostly from livestock groups. They say that this expansion of federal land comes before the federal government has really put together a plan to take care of those lands. As many people know, especially in the Western part of this country, there is often heated debate over federal ownership of land. The federal government, in fact, owns more than a quarter of the land in this country. On the other hand, Judy, conservationists say they have a goal of trying to preserve 30 percent of the land in this country by 2030. This bill is part of that effort. So, it's a big move for them.

JUDY WOODRUFF: And just finally, Lisa, interesting that this bill does have the Republican support that it does. And you were telling us there's more climate action legislation bubbling up on the Hill.

LISA DESJARDINS: Right. I want to talk about the politics here. One reason also Republicans are supporting this, look at this letter. This is from an environmental -- the Evangelical Environmental Network. Judy, 65,000 people who describe themselves as pro-life or anti-abortion Christians signed this letter urging Congress to pass this bill and other environmental bills. Essentially, Judy, there is some fervor on the right from religious groups to say, the environment is a life issue. And that is something that we're seeing senators listen to. Also, there are some at-risk senators, Cory Gardner in Colorado, also Steve Daines in Montana, for whom this bill will help. And there is more environmental legislation coming up the pike. We will keep an eye on it.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Lisa Desjardins reporting on something that hasn't gotten a lot of attention on the Hill in quite some time. Lisa, thank you.

LISA DESJARDINS: You're welcome.

朱迪·伍德乐夫：今天，参议院以压倒性优势通过了一项法案，为国家公园和公共土地提供资金。丽莎·德斯贾丁斯和我一起讲述关于这项立法以及国会在环境问题上正在考虑的其他问题。

丽莎·德斯贾丁斯：是的，朱迪。这实际上是一个不寻常的法案，跨党派的法案，已经酝酿了很多年，现在在这个不寻常的时刻通过了。首先，让我告诉你法案里都有哪些内容。参议院通过的这项法案仍需在众议院通过。让我们从最前面开始说起吧。这将为我们国家公园和其他联邦土地的逾期养护提供资金，在五年内提供95亿美元。那就是……这些需求在很长一段时间里都被忽视了。这也将永久资助一个叫做土地、水和保护基金的项目。我们将马上谈论更多关于这方面的，它将通过利用石油和天然气收入，海上钻探为该项目提供资金，朱迪。让我们回到为我们的公园和联邦土地提供95亿美元资金这个话题上来。朱迪，在美国，每个人都知道这是引以为豪的事情，但事实是，几十年来，这些公园一直资金不足。让我们来谈谈我们的第一个国家公园，例如黄石国家公园。在那个公园里，他们没有能够关注到所有道路和小径。此外，那里的一些工作人员还没有住房。所以，他们实际上还没能雇佣到他们想要的员工，因为他们没有地方住。这就是法案将提供的内容。朱迪，两党再次在参议院以压倒性多数通过这个法案，在众议院也是强烈希望这个法案会通过。

朱迪·伍德乐夫：还有，丽莎，告诉我们为什么。是什么让它在众议院得到了支持？

丽莎·德斯贾丁斯：我认为这里也有一些非常重要的政策。例如，让我们来谈谈土地、水和保护基金。这笔资金是用来增加联邦土地的，包括国家公园。据说想要扩大黄石公园。该基金成立于1965年，是美国公共土地重要性理念的一部分。然而，国会几乎没有为它提供资金，并且年复一年地使用临时资金，所以它并不可靠。现在它有了永久的资金来源。这将是强制性的资金。国会不会每年对此进行投票。这不仅意味着国家公园拥有更多土地，还意味着城市地区也可能拥有更多土地。这也是许多环保人士希望扩大联邦土地的地方。我认为，这对大部分美国人来说是个大问题，这就是为什么你会看到许多共和党人，不是所有人，而是一些人，支持它。

朱迪·伍德乐夫：丽莎，你告诉我们，这个法案的前景，在众议院看起来不错，但不是一致都这么认为的。告诉我们那些反对它的人在说什么。

丽莎·德斯贾丁斯：有一些反对意见，主要是由于这项法案的成本。虽然扩大保护基金的资金来自石油和天然气收入，但国家公园的资金就不是了。所以这会增加赤字。一些人对此表示担忧。朱迪也表示，一些反对意见主要来自家畜集团。他们说，是在联邦政府真正制定一个计划来管理这些土地，随之而来的就是联邦土地的扩张。正如许多人所知道的，特别是在这个国家的西部，关于土地的联邦所有权经常有激烈的争论。事实上，联邦政府拥有这个国家四分之一以上的土地。另一方面，朱迪，自然环境保护主义者声称，他们的目标是到2030年保护这个国家30%的土地。这项法案是这项努力的一部分。所以，这对他们来说是个大动作。

朱迪·伍德乐夫：最后，丽莎，有趣的是这个法案得到了共和党的支持。你告诉我们还有更多的气候行动立法正在国会酝酿。

丽莎·德斯贾丁斯：对。这里我想谈谈政治问题。共和党人也支持这一点的一个原因是，看看这封信。这是来自一个环境……福音派环境网。朱迪，6.5万自称是反堕胎或反堕胎基督徒的人签署了这封信，敦促国会通过这项法案和其他环保法案。朱迪，从本质上讲，宗教团体对此有某种强烈的话语权，环境关乎生命。这是参议员们常听到的一句话。还有一些处境危险的参议员，科罗拉多州的科里·加德纳，还有蒙大拿州的史蒂夫·戴恩斯，这项法案将对他们有所帮助。还有更多的环境立法即将出台。我们会密切关注的。

朱迪·伍德乐夫：丽莎·德斯贾丁斯报道了一件在国会已经很长时间没有引起太多关注的事情。丽莎，谢谢你。

丽莎·德斯贾丁斯：不客气。